I’ve read two blogs recently that suggest we might be heading for yet another pointless and futile ‘dialogue’ process, purportedly to find a ‘solution’ to the ongoing illegal killing of hen harriers on grouse moors.
Representatives of the criminals within the driven grouse shooting industry would be on one side of the table and conservationists and the police on the other.
The first public indication that this dialogue process was being mooted appeared in a blog published by the charity Hen Harrier Action at the end of January 2025 (here). The charity had interviewed Detective Inspector Mark Harrison of the National Wildlife Crime Unit, who leads on the Hen Harrier Task Force.
In that interview, DI Harrison is quoted as follows:
“We are applying for funding from DEFRA to use the IUCN Human-Wildlife Conflict and Coexistence Guidelines as a tool for building for the future. This funding will bring in independent facilitators to collaborate with key stakeholders to find and implement long term solutions. We hope that this funding will be for three years“.
The second blog which refers to the same dialogue process is this one, posted three days ago on the Northern England Raptor Forum’s website (NERF represents raptor fieldworkers across northern England).
The NERF blog starts off with a response to the suspicious disappearance of satellite-tagged hen harrier ‘Red’, who hatched on the Tarras Valley Nature Reserve last year but then vanished on a grouse moor in the North Pennines in January 2025 (here).
It then moves on to the so-called ‘conflict resolution’ dialogue process, as follows:
“In the meantime, the MA [Moorland Association] are demanding that NE and Defra undertake another round of conflict resolution claiming that the killing of Hen Harriers is the result of human animal conflict as defined by the ICUN Guidelines. This assertion is dismissed by conservation groups, including by NERF, as irrelevant. The so-called conflict is entirely the result of criminals who consistently break the law at will killing Hen Harriers throughout the North of England. It is evident that there are many in the grouse shooting industry who will not be satisfied until Hen Harriers are extinct in the North of England.
“If the rumours are correct and a new round of conflict resolution is being entered into it will be yet another victory for the grouse shooting industry who will have kicked the problem into the long grass, again. Apparently, the plan is for the process to last for 3 years and cost £400, 000. If past experience is anything to go by the process will last longer and cost significantly more than the original estimate. How much of the estimated cost will come from the public purse is not known at the moment, however any intent to squander tax payer’s money on this flawed idea should be resisted. Hardly a day goes by without a Cabinet Minister reminding us that they inherited a £22 billion ‘black hole’. Government Departments are having their budgets slashed and staff numbers are being reduced. Natural England’s Hen Harrier field team is being reduced from 3 to 2. £400k could pay for that field worker to be retained for up to 10 years“.
The earlier conflict resolution process that NERF refers to was known as the ‘Hen Harrier Dialogue’ which began nineteen years ago in 2006 and was hosted by The Environment Council. It dragged on until 2013, by which time the breeding population of hen harriers in England had fallen to just a single, successful pair, the RSPB had walked away from the dialogue (here), later followed by NERF (here) and then the Hawk & Owl Trust (here).
The dialogue process was a complete and utter failure. It achieved absolutely nothing in terms of hen harrier conservation but was used by the grouse shooting industry as a politically-pleasing gesture and a useful delaying ploy.
The sham hen harrier brood meddling trial followed, between 2018 – 2024, which proved that attitudes in the grouse shooting industry towards hen harriers remained firmly in the Victorian era with at least 134 hen harriers ‘disappearing’ or confirmed illegally killed since the trial began, most of them on or close to grouse moors.
We are currently awaiting a formal review of the brood meddling sham by Natural England and a decision on whether NE will issue a licence to the grouse shooting industry for further brood meddling this year and in the years ahead (see here).
It’s an oft-repeated phenomenon that whenever someone ‘new’ gets involved in the issue of hen harrier persecution, indeed the issues relating to all raptor persecution, that they call for all ‘sides’ to sit down together, build partnerships and reach a resolution that will end the illegal killing.
It’s an understandable and seemingly sensible idea. That is, until you look back at the history of this issue and realise that one ‘side’, i.e. the criminals within the shooting industry, simply aren’t prepared to tolerate hen harriers / raptors on ‘their’ grouse moors because of the perceived threat to ‘their’ red grouse.
Pseudo ‘partnerships’ with the game-shooting industry have been set-up so many times, only to fail miserably in the face of ongoing illegal persecution and abject denial from the shooting industry’s representatives (e.g. see here, here, here, here, here, here, here).
As far as I can see, nothing has changed to suggest that setting up yet another sham partnership to address the illegal killing of hen harriers on driven grouse moors will do anything other than provide the criminals with yet another opportunity to masquerade in public as law-abiding, responsible custodians whilst in private continuing to shoot, trap, stamp on, and pull the heads and wings off any hen harrier that dares to go anywhere near a driven grouse moor.
The time for talking ended years ago.
Sign the Wild Justice petition calling for a ban on driven grouse shooting HERE. It is currently supported by 69,000 people. It requires 100,000 people to sign it, before 22 May 2025, to trigger a debate in the Westminster parliament.
UPDATE 9 July 2025: Defra refuses funding for another futile ‘dialogue’ process to address ongoing killing of Hen Harriers on grouse moors (here).
Raptor Persecution UK 
Debate is pointless in government with the shower we have. They will simply say what they always say that grouse shooting is good for jobs, and good for the environment and good for our coffers because they pay us. They will then dismiss it and say Ukraine is far more important. The whole government needs disbanding the sickening killing of these beautiful birds must be ceased. For that we need a new king as well as government. Poor Hen Harriers, and indeed wildlife. They stand no chance.
I could not agree more. Im pleased that NERF and this blog tell it how it is. The idea that the the criminals will stop breaking the law if they are asked ‘nicely’ is ludicrous. Im not hopeful that the latest Scottish Law will in any way help in Scotland. We can see how that is being undermined by the backers of the criminals. Keep at it Ruth. It may be several more years yet,unfortunately!!
This conflict resolution stuff is just a joke that keeps on giving. I know it was promoted by very knowledgeable genuinely well meaning people post-Langholm. But they didn’t understand the personality types they are dealing with. By now the lesson should have been learnt that (with the exception of a small few estates) the owners and agents are a peculiarly selfish and entitled group of people. They will not accept the concept of having less grouse to shoot than is possible with the full-on approach – not for the sake of a few shitty hawks and the like.
£400, 000 would buy a game-changing amount of surveillance kit I would say, and pay the wages of someone to run them. With his team already poised to deploy such tactics, DI Harrison must not waiver now. If he becomes drawn away onto this deliberate distraction / false trail then it is all back to square one.
Dialogue is a a road to frustration and nothing more, having been involved. It allows the criminals in the grouse cabal to say they are engaged in trying to solve the problem, thus getting breathing space to continue stone walling any change whilst continuing to solve their ” problem ” illegally. We already have the answer, a rigorous application of the law possibly coupled with a licencing system that really punishes transgressors with licence withdrawal, failing that a ban. DGS doesn’t make enough money to be even a pin prick of a contributor to the exchequer and is hardly a major employer even in countryside terms, we wouldn’t miss it. Once the moors were without DGS their value would be low enough to be bought and managed for wildlife.
“Representatives of the criminals within the driven grouse shooting industry would be on one side of the table and conservationists and the police on the other.”
I think it would be a very foolish, or entirely sham, ‘conservationist’ organisation, today, to fall for that one (again). Looking at you, Natural England.
“It’s an oft-repeated phenomenon that whenever someone ‘new’ gets involved in the issue of hen harrier persecution, indeed the issues relating to all raptor persecution, that they call for all ‘sides’ to sit down together, build partnerships and reach a resolution that will end the illegal killing.
It’s an understandable and seemingly sensible idea.”
Indeed. And I have had a look at the (relative) turnover of the relevant policy makers.
There have been 14 Secretaries of State for the Environment (4 Labour and 10 Conservative) since 2006 (under three Labour and five Conservative Prime Ministers).
Meanwhile, there have been just four Permanent Secretaries heading up DEFRA since 2006: Dame Helen F. Ghosh, D.C.B.; Bronwyn Hill, C.B.E.; Dame Clare Moriarty, D.C.B.; and Dame Tamara M. Finkelstein, D.C.B.
See https://www.gulabin.com/britishcivilservants/pdf/Senior%20Civil%20Servants.pdf
I ask, who is the more likely to steer a niche environmental policy (ie. on raptor persecution):
14 short-lived Secretaries of State – career politicians often jumping from one Department to another, with no special affinity for the environment – or the 4 Permanent Secretaries, from the Whitehall ‘Mandarin’ class, with all the experience of years and years of ‘overseeing’ game shooting through troubled waters?
Defra Permanent Secretaries (annual salary from £152K – £200K. cf £172K for the Prime Minister) are required to be ‘impartial’ and to ‘not allow your personal political views to determine any advice you give‘. This is tested by asking them, because they also have to be ‘honest’.
In the case of “where a candidate has previously engaged in political activity (Tony Juniper, Chair of a Non-Departmental Public Body, say), the selection panel must satisfy itself that the candidate understands the requirement to operate objectively and impartially if appointed and must record how this has been done”
By the way, the current Head of Defra, Tamara Finkelstein is the sister political journalist and Conservative Peer Daniel Finkelstein.
Keith, many thanks for this clear, thoughtful and informative response.
What I cannot understand is why any conservationists, or their organisations, would currently want to sit at the same table as the Moorland Assoc, NGA, BASC or the GWCT given the history of all of their past failures that you have so clearly outlined.
I can understand why the enforcement agencies incl the NWCU would wish to sit down with Natural England and the Moorland Assoc, NGA, BASC and the GWCT to instruct them as to the laws of this land of ours and the enforcement measures open to them.
Now there is a challenge for DI Harrison..
And that is in the end the Whole thing in a nutshell, given past history. That the NWCU possibly with support for that one meeting should make it quite, quite clear to the representatives of the Grouse Cabal that the law is the law , there for perfectly good reasons and that on that there can be no compromise.
Fantastic knowledgeable comments pity you lot don’t run the country especially you Keith your all a force to be reckoned with. We would have passionate harmonious times instead of all the political brainwashed bull shit awful people we have in these positions no interest in wildlife, birds not the feathered kind any way keep on fighting.
I think something more meaningful needs to be done before Hen Harriers become extinct, predominantly thanks to the shooting industry (I have no idea the numbers left but know enough to know that it’s so worryingly low) (I think the whole shooting industry is sick in it’s entirety and should be banned, i.e the shooting of all birds and killing of their predators or any other wildlife, i.e hares etc) The shooting industry and their representatives are just absolutely full of falsehood and no good to deal with or even talk to. If the law were to be / had been based on the civil version of probability of culpability regarding raptor persecution it would have made a difference to countless past and future cases, making prosecutions a possibility and therefore acting as a deterrent. (but that won’t happen) At the moment estates are so remote and so secretive and stick to their b***ocks that prosecutions for raptor persecutions are near impossible. (and they’ll never pack it in off of their own backs)
Reply to Tim who wrote: (I think the whole shooting industry is sick in it’s entirety and should be banned, i.e the shooting of all birds and killing of their predators or any other wildlife, i.e hares etc)
The members of Animal Interfaith Alliance very much agree.
p.s I’m aware the civil version of probability of culpability has been taken up in Scotland (Thanks to Keith and Ruth)
Has been taken up in Scotland with regards to licences I should have said, sorry.
As I have just written on another blog entry on here, imagine if the authorities, the police/government, took this approach to other organized crime? Hardly an organized drug dealer/importer, would ever have been caught. For years this was presented as the odd bad apple, operating without knowledge of anyone else. The satellite tag data, covert camera footage, has blown the doors of this big lie. Yet the thing is, the authorities from the government down, from Natural England to the police, are still dealing with it, along the lines of the odd bad apple, big lie.
Anyone with their eyes open, knows why the authorities are not taking the normal approach to persistent organized crime, and that is because ultimately, the people involved in this organized crime, are some of the most senior members of the established order, and other very rich and powerful people. The authorities don’t want to look too closely for fear of what they might find, and the scandal it would cause. So instead, they stick to to this incredibly dishonest, what can we do charade, to avoid finding out, what they don’t want to know. Clearly not all people are equal before the law, and this is establishment corruption of the highest order. With people being given official protection, simply because of who they are.
This exercise would be a waste of time and money. No doubt it will be more jobs for the boys and girls.
For some years I lived in a city on the south coast. A friend of mine who was retired from the police there told me organised crime ran the city and the whole area. I enquired if that included the police and the council, to which he replied, “yes”. He added there were 12-15 people so big in this city, no one could touch them. I think many of the towns and cities in the UK are the same.
Steb1 and country born n bred and all of you you’ve said it beautifully corruption money and the wrong people in authority mean it is not taken seriously enough these law breakers buy their way out of trouble and they are probably doing the grouse shooting so we are on a loser corruption is rife in this country.Corruption in the police councils back handers we have it every where so what chance is there like I said in an earlier blog The Moorland association and natural England are the Putin and Trump of grouse shooting.