I’ve recently been blogging about a number of mannequins (hen harrier scarers) that have been installed on a number of grouse moors in the Yorkshire Dales National Park and the Peak District National Park (here, here and here).
I also wrote about an active gas gun (a bird-scaring device designed to ‘boom’ loudly and intermittently), that had also been placed out on one of those grouse moors (here).
Another blog reader has now been in touch with photographs of two more gas guns that have been positioned on another grouse moor in the Yorkshire Dales National Park, one out in the open and the other one set inside a grouse- shooting butt:
I’ve blogged about the use of gas guns to deter breeding hen harriers many times before, as has Mark Avery, which led to us seeking advice from SNH (now NatureScot) and Natural England for guidance for their use on grouse moors during the breeding season (see here).
The eventual advice from SNH (here) and Natural England (here) was unimpressive to say the least, although it was clear that if Schedule 1 birds (i.e. hen harriers) were present in the area, the user was advised to ‘ensure that gas guns are located so that they do not disturb breeding Schedule 1 birds. This includes all breeding stages from nest building through to young that are still dependant on the adult birds‘.
The difficulties associated with determining sufficient evidence to demonstrate a disturbance offence in this scenario was coherently examined by former Police Wildlife Crime Officer Alan Stewart on his blog (here), at least in terms of wildlife protection legislation in Scotland.
So here we are, seven years later, and this issue is still not resolved.
I’d also like to know how the firing of gas guns, and the installation of mannequins, on grouse moors during the hen harrier breeding season fits in with DEFRA’s ludicrous Hen Harrier Action Plan (and the associated hen harrier brood meddling trial), where we’re supposed to believe that grouse moor owners and their gamekeepers are all welcoming breeding hen harriers with open arms.
Incidentally, the gas guns photographed earlier this month on a grouse moor in the Yorkshire Dales National Park (see above) just happen to be on the same grouse moor that was at at the centre of a police investigation in 2017 into the suspicious disappearance of a satellite-tagged hen harrier and another police investigation in 2020 into the alleged shooting of another hen harrier. Imagine that.
Raptor Persecution UK 
“I fail to see how gas guns, which are designed as bird scarers [to be used to protect arable crops at the time of planting or harvest] will only deter Raven from predating wader chicks whilst having no impact upon breeding birds at the same time. In my opinion the claim is ridiculous. I don’t know of any conservationist who believes that gas guns are needed in the uplands, many of which are also National Parks. In my opinion these weapons are being used to persuade both Hen Harriers and Short-eared Owls not to breeding on grouse moors, which is their natural breeding habitat.”
Steve Downing
Chair Calderdale Raptor Study Group October 2016.
I think your probably right in what you are saying I have lived on the edge of Ilkley/ Rombalds Moor for nearly 50 years and although now live in Calderdale cannot see any other reason for putting out Gas Guns other than to Deter Nesting Birds of Prey ..If they really wanted to preserve their Valuable Grouse Stocks they should get Licences to Cull the Large Flocks of Herring Gulls that Come inland from the Coast and Landfill Sites around the County instead of persecuting Endangered Species like the Short Eared Owls and Handful of Hen Harriers at Best that are very occasionally seen over the Moors and Fells up our way
The Few Owls and Harriers together couldnt get through in a Season probably What a Flock of Gulls get through in a Day or twos Scavenging over these Moorlands
A Gull will take a whole Nestfull of Grouse Chicks in its Gullet at one Sitting probably whereas the Raptors being so few would hardly make a Dent in the Grouse Stocks ..Maybee if DEFRA and the Environment Agency made it easier for The Landowners to get these ‘Culling Licences ‘ for Gulls and Keepers actually sat up on their Moorlands and Shot these Pests as they do Foxes Carrion Crows Stoats and Weasles they wouldn’t need these Blasted Gas Guns to do their Jobs for them ! ..
There is also maybe another reason for them as the sound of Gunfire or loud Bangs Would Generally Deter most Folk from wandering around somewhere where they would presume someone was Shooting ! Thus impeding the right to Roam also
you need to show you have tried to scare away gulls or ravens before a cull license is granted. Putting ravens, Herring and black back gulls on the general license would resolve this.
why wait for general licence for ravens, Herring and black back gulls, Hen Harriers have never been on general licence and never will be but this has never stopped them being shot?? , ravens, Herring and black back gulls are being killed on grouse moors and wherever there is game to protect.
Are the RSPB aware of what is happening here?
Why don’t you just Leave All Alone!! IT is (Nature!) & who are you! To take them out just because you CAN!!. MONEY..MONEY..MONEY.. DISGUSTING!!
Quite right. It’s all about some men wanting to kill living creatures willy nilly for a days social and entertainment and killing too many to eat anyway just like fox hunting. Some of their victims are more intelligent than them anyway.
Yes I totally agree with you Louise I much prefer animals to humans anyday
As far as I’m aware nobody ever killed a fox in order to eat it. 🙄
It isn’t just men that shoot and hunt, Louise. Although they are undoubtedly the vast majority and the ones who are in the driving seat. The growth of the cheap driven pheasant shooting package – of accommodation, food & drink through the day and a late dinner & drinks social, has gained popularity in new quarters, and some wives and girlfriends very much embrace this – attending shoot days but generally not shooting, just donning the fashionable country attire and keenly identifying themselves with the scene. And seemingly enjoying it. Also accepting all the guff at face value and seldom thinking widely about the reality of producing that many birds for shooting, whereas in day to life they would probably be more sceptical.
Completely agree about the gulls. The criteria for protecting a bird species needs to be far more specific. As far as I know, last year, the only licenses to control gulls were issued in seaside towns where the gulls were bothering holidaymakers. 🙄
MONEY IS WHAT IT’S ABOUT, I lived in the North Pennines, Lakes and Scotland over the last thirty years. I can tell you that the gamekeepers do not give a damn about this, they are mostly, quite horrible and violent people.
Absolutely money and the kill that’s all there bothered about pathetic little creatures of so called human beings, all nature does perfectly well without us interfering, these people are obsessed with killing things simple as that
Don’t forget though gamekeepers are paid by and acting on behalf of the landed gentry ( including the royals) who organise expensive grouse shooting days
seems to be plenty of grouse to be shot but not enough for the Hen Harrier?,
Grouse:
Date Brace Price (Incl.)
August & September 125 £23,250 per day (£2,906.25 per gun, 8 guns)
October 100 £18,000 per day (£2,250 per gun, 8 guns)
November 80 £14,080 per day (£1,760 per gun, 8 guns)
Can I ask how many gamekeepers you know personally to substantiate that statement?
Maybe there seagull scaring devices in that case as they predate both grouse and harrier chicks alike !
True. I cannot believe that raptors would materially diminish grouse stocks to a point where shooting grouse would be affected either. These silly narrow minded individuals who persecute beautiful and rare birds of prey in the misguided notion that they kill off so many grouse there would be none left to shoot. Its sickening. I hope these devices are removed when they are discovered!
surely these gas guns are a fire hazard on dry moorland?
NFU bird scarers code of practice
https://www.nfuonline.com/updates-and-information/protecting-your-crop-nfu-bird-scarers-code-of-practice/
To Andrew, I have just read your Rules of Use. For the Gas Guns, why have you not taken this up with the person who put the photos on in the first place he should be able to give you the place where the guns have been sited, I say this because yes some of the comments are right in what they say. They are 1/A danger to walkers on the public rights of way .2/ they are for scaring Birds of any Kind from the Crops, 3/are then The Heathers a crop, I believe That they are anot and never have been you see I was a Riverfly for seven years But I was also a River Guardian before that, so I know what you can use and where, I therefore believe that these guns are being used in an area, which has a high wrisk of Fire due to moorland catching fire due to persons lighting fires for a picknick.
Now I also believe that your database should hold a record of who has recently bought, a significant amount of these guns for use on their land, if there has not been such a sale, then they have been either stolen or letout from another souse tipicarly a game aarden or keeper who is bent, either way if this is the case then it’s the local Wildlife Police Officer who needs to be addressed and then they can get removed. Because in your code of conduct these are for protecting a crop, and I have never known. Moreland of Heathers to be a crop .
Hilary Down, it’s not my “code of conduct” or my rules???
We use gas guns successfully against corvids at lambing they are a useful tool we have green plover nesting with us successfully again its worked to deter foxes and covids as well as trapping and shooting.
We have a successfully breeding group now who return as foxes predate ground nesting like hen harriers!
so these gas guns are used to help the Hen Harriers and other ground nesting birds???
“We use gas guns successfully against corvids at lambing…”
I see no lambs.
“we have green plover nesting with us successfully again its worked to deter foxes and covids as well as trapping and shooting.”
Gas guns also deter Green Plover from nesting.
I agree. Gas guns, commonly called crow scarers, are used to deter corvids that prey on the young of ground nesting species that need all the help they can get. Birds of prey rarely take any notice of loud noises and will go about their business regardless.
“Gas guns, commonly called crow scarers, are used to deter corvids that prey on the young of ground nesting species that need all the help they can get.”
Gas guns also deter ground nesting birds from nesting.
“Birds of prey rarely take any notice of loud noises and will go about their business regardless.”
Untrue.
What can we, the public, do to help?
Hi. I stumbled upon this post so I don’t know about the breeding bird situation.
My first thoughts were, how safe is it to have an unattended flammable gas operated machine in an area which is basically a tinder box. What have the health and safety got to say? I had a catering van and my gas bottles had to be in a cage. Maybe the fire department can give more clarity to what the law is on such equipment.
I don’t know if this is a stupid question, but do these guns/cannons also become a potential fire hazards (having the risk of exploding in the temperatures that we are getting).
Potentially wiping out EVERYTHING ! Not just the birds these people are allegedly trying to scare off ? 🤷🤦🤯
will the children be shown the gas guns or how Hen Harriers are shot??,
https://basc.org.uk/moor-fantastic-than-ever-lets-learn-moor-2023/
Nah, it’s akin to sitting outside a slaughterhouse having a picnic with Peppa Pig soft toys, while a lorry load of real pigs are being processed inside. Doubt they will have had a tour of the stinkpits/snare lines either!
is this moorland open to the public?,if so then this is surely a health & safety issue,i’m pretty sure that when the gas gun goes off it could cause someone to have a heart attack etc,
You’ve never lived in the country, then? They van be a noise nuisance near settlements…
Try living in an arable area
They can go off constantly on many farms from dawn to dusk from Dec to May. Add to that the pheasant shooting from Nov to Feb and pigeon shooting in the spring and it’s like living in a war zone. My dog goes berserk when she hears bangs and I think they’re dreadful
Crop protection ,go forage for your food in surburbia if you don’t like it in the country ,move back to town
How do you know that the person that you’re referring to wasn’t born in “the country”?
Well if she was ,then she should be use to it
“Use (sic) to it doesn’t mean having to put up with it, or that she should kowtow to the criminals who abuse our countryside.
Why don’t you move to Mars instead? They are searching for primitive organisms there.
Hahaha as if we didn’t expect that answer from a country bumpkin I lived on a estate for 5years couldn’t get away fast enough watched the land owner and company stand under a tree and blow away pigeons as they landed I would rather forage for food than meet you lot again
Dont be bloody stupid. We KNOW what they are for and it isnt crop protection!( at least not on the moors!!)
We have the same problem, the local shoot surrounds our property as we live on the only wooded area on their entire shoot. Some of the woods belong to a neighbouring farmer who permits them to shoot there and some of the woods belongs to us, we have horses and dogs all of which are terrified by the shoot and a half acre Pond with wild ducks on it which my grandchildren feed yet the shooters think that if their beaters can frighten the ducks off the pond then it okay to shoot them. Shooting season round these parts is like living in Beirut.
I don’t think you can compare the use of gas guns to protect arable crops with gas guns used on grouse moors to protect ground nesting birds. I would suggest your comment is indicative of the narrow, uneducated and entrenched mindset which leads some people living in the countryside to develop a belief which views all outsiders with a different opinion as “townies” who have no place living in the countryside.. Fortunately there is now a growing generation of people who grew up in the countryside, were educated in our colleges and universities and realise the folly of clinging onto a closed and archaic set of beliefs and practices. When they return from their studies and want change – do you call them “townies” and suggest there is no place in the countryside for them, even though they were born there?
Well said, I’ve lived in the countryside all my life in Derbyshire, the picture i get is land owning feeble minded people just love the depraved lust for killing animals and that’s that, they think they inherently have the right to do so, there are law onto them selves, there is hope that as young people become more aware of the fragile planet, that these people and practices belong back where they came from the entitled idiots of land owners
Without wanting to decry your statement……have you actually lived in a War Zone? Whilst I don’t want to hear these “Gas Guns” as they consistently discharge they are not as bad as Small Arms Fire, Rocket Launches, Heavy Machine Gun and Tank Fire. Not to mention Mortar and Landmine. A bit of an overstatement relating to the slight annoyance of said discharges against the persistent bombardment in a Real “War Zone!
For clarity, I live in a small countryside village with these annoyances but have also lived in “ Proper War Zone” These darn Gas Guns are irresponsible and I suspect, like most things, creatures get used to them. They do trigger my PTSD on occassion!!!!!
Welcome to the countryside… I lived in a town once and was kept awake by police sirens, cars, lorries and people constantly… and that was just at night.. it was unbearable… I moved back to the countryside.. each to their own environment.
How is leaving an unattended gas canister on open dry moor a prudent idea when public have access, what are your insurance regulations on that. Shooting will be deemed an outdated practice in years to come, if not morally bird flu will have massive implications on your breeding program Tbh if landowners and trusts rely on this for their business model they don’t deserve to be in business when there are so many leisure opportunities.
Couldn’t agree more, but sadly its the enjoyment of the kill they like depraved as they are, they will dress it up as everything else
I am shocked to see this going on as I was raised at coverhead farm in this area and animals and birds welfare was upmost protected as we ran and kept huge part of the Yorkshire moors land I always loved seeing the big white barn owes every evening that would always come and hunt in our woods and sit on our gate posy we loved spotting all different types of birds on or daily rounds in our moonbug or motor bikes we also had l9ads of tourist attraction to the nature reserve to really shame to see it being harmed
I have stumbled upon your blogs by accident and I have a post waiting for approval . In my post I bring up the health and safety aspect of said bottles. I took the liberty of reading the Calor refill agreement . I have attached a section of the agreement I hope this might give a new angle on stopping the use of these potentially dangerous “gas guns” Good luck Bob
The Company’s rights over the Cylinders
The User is liable for the safe storage and use of Cylinder(s) and the safety of any equipment used with them but the Company may inspect or test Cylinder(s) and any fittings used with them at any time and remove and replace Cylinder(s) if defective, or for any other reason, but without the Company being under any obligation to do so. In any case of wilful damage or breach of this Agreement the Company may repossess Cylinder(s) immediately and the User by entering into this Agreement irrevocably authorises the Company or their agent to enter on the User’s property for these purposes and in that event this Agreement is terminated. The Company may charge the User for loss of use of a Cylinder, in the event of loss or damage to the Cylinder but this charge shall not give the User any rights in the Cylinder. Unless the Company, at its discretion, decides otherwise, the User will forfeit any rights or benefits conferred upon this by this Agreement.
This gas gun is deffo there with the sole purpose of deterring Black back gulls, which are resident in massive numbers at a local quarry.
Even with video evidence of Black backs taking all species of young birds including grouse chicks at this place, a cull licence will not be granted.
This place is way too small and public for a harrier to nest (unless the public rights of way were restricted for 6-8 months of the year).
If this place is not managed at all, every breeding bird will suffer, not just grouse.
Its called NATURAL predation and no cull licences because the gulls themselves are listed unlike Red Grouse..
your statement proves your stupidity
it’s nature!
“If this place is not managed at all, every breeding bird will suffer, not just grouse.”
And yet all these breeding birds managed perfectly well before Grouse shooting was invented.
if it’s going to be managed then it should be managed for all including birds of prey,these moors are being managed just for grouse!
Humans have interfered with nature as long as we have existed? Are you so naive to think that all will be ok if we just all of a sudden stop interfering. That is our problem as we are all or nothing. There is more than one way to do things but whichever way it must be done in moderation!
Can driven grouse shooting be done in moderation? I honestly don’t know the answer to that, it has never been tried at a landscape level, only by the odd easy-going Owner or tenant here and there. It is fundamentally an immoderate thing to involve oneself in. Moderation will only work if the people involved radically reduce their appetite for bag numbers, but do not reduce their willingness to pay the same amount for their day(s). But I am certain of one thing – high bag numbers cannot be achieved consistently without breaking the law consistently.
Exactly, humans have been managing the landscape for thousands of years, there is nothing really truly wild in this country, all the so called natural areas have been altered and moulded over the centuries. We can’t just suddenly stop and expect everything to sort its self out.
But that is exactly what wildlife does, it not be the balance you want and certainly not one the grouse shooters want but the argument that because it is not natural we need to interfere is a false one. However currently there is a high or potentially high population of meso predators that we know can affect a wide range of ground nesting species attracted by unnaturally high numbers of grouse, mainly fox and corvids these would need to be managed as grouse numbers fell to more natural levels so that no species was adversely affected by this predation.
Returning to gas guns, my experience is largely but not entirely on farmland where contrary to claims such guns are ineffective unless frequently moved and the pattern of bangs changed, otherwise they are quickly ignored especially by corvids. The argument that this is because licences are no longer granted to moors for the control of red and amber listed gulls might be true but experience says they are ineffective ask those estates that have attempted to remove colonies of these birds both successfully and otherwise. ( gulls have always nested on remote moorland especially the globally rare Lesser Black Back thus predation by them is a natural hazard). Mannequins and gas guns may however be very effective against the shy and partly people-phobic Hen Harrier, Peregrine and Short eared Owl BUT if thees birds were or are present, holding territory or site selecting disturbance with gas guns is an ILLEGAL act and should be treated as such,by the authorities however difficult. However long term gas guns are totally ineffective a deterring anything but humans. Most solutions to this problem are however as illegal as the guns themselves.
“Humans have interfered with nature as long as we have existed?
So what?
“Are you so naive to think that all will be ok if we just all of a sudden stop interfering”
Are you so naive to think that if ‘management for grouse shooting’ stopped, ALL breeding birds, including raptors, would suffer? How do you explain the widespread reduction of moorland breeding raptors since the advent of ‘moorland management for grouse shooting’?
No the majority of birds didn’t manage on their own Keith before a favourable environment was created for them.
If you like, let’s see how a multitude of species fare when no ‘control’ of species like Black backs and Carrion crow takes place.
If you only want to see corvids and gulls then crack on!
The only reason Black backs are in high numbers in this area is due to a man made quarry with high cliffs, and a constant large water supply welling there also an abundant food source from thd surrounding ground in the shape of lamb, chicks and young rabbit.
Nothing Is of the menu.
Nature, yep right.
Think you need to understand it a little maybe.
Hi JB, “Silent Fields” by Roger Lovegrove would be a good book for you (or anyone) to read. It was for me.
The answer is so simple JB, that I am surprised you didn’t trip over it. It takes a number of years before such severely damaged terrain can re-adjust and host the ecology that is correc t for it’s location and climate. This isn’t a “Paul on the Road to Damascus” experience, just the allowing natural forces to re-assert themselves over a period of years while removing the sheep and managing deer at a level that allows vegetation to to re-establish itself.
Once a natural habitat has been restored the ecology itself will develop a self sustaining state where black back gulls. corvids and all the rest will co-exist in relevant numbers that allows relative stability to reign.
Isn’t that the journey that most type of damaged land take — unless severe chemical damage exists — from abandoned factories to deserted towns and villages.
This fear mongering about a few species taking over in the long term to the disadvantage of others does not fit with the historical examples that exist all around us. The only place where too many species has destroyed the natural ecology of the land is on land managed commercially for shooting and now they are trying to tell us that to put it back in the condition it was would lead to an overpopulation of black back gulls and corvids.
That’s a complete reversal of the situation and the very fact they present it as a “realistic” theory shows how easily they have lied to us for the last 200 years.
This. So much this. The pro-grouse shooting collective are shameless in their (possibly self) deception. It’s nothing more honourable than self serving capitalism at it’s ugliest. And the cost is devastating.
Cries of “ignorant townie” is the death rattle of an immoral and hopefully declining industry. Industry being the operative word.
Spot on George! It’s time to stop living in the past and give nature space and less human interference.
“No the majority of birds didn’t manage on their own Keith before a favourable environment was created for them.”
Crikey! You mean the majority of ALL birds were declining before Grouse shooting was invented? How was that possible? I mean, birds have existed for millions of years, and in far greater numbers, before the gun was invented. Or, are you just referring to waders such as Lapwing, Curlew etc which are declining now? Which means there must have existed a time when even these were doing much better, despite your so-called ‘favourable environment’.
“If you like, let’s see how a multitude of species fare when no ‘control’ of species like Black backs and Carrion crow takes place.”
There are two species of Black-backed gull: both are declining. Carrion Crows, thanks to all the dead game birds the grubby little hobby of canned shooting produces, have increased as a direct result.
“Think you need to understand it a little maybe”
But not as much as yourself.
utter nonsense wildlife managed itself in these places with much of it more numerous and diverse long before we manged it, before in many cases we were even here.
The whole existence of grouse is pointless as they are bread purely for primitive human enjoyment to the detriment of numerous endangered bird species.
Hi Rosie, grouse are not bred – you are perhaps confusing them with red-leg partridges? Grouse belong in our uplands there’s no issue with that, they are interesting birds full of character. It is the things that are done to nurture a high population of them purely for shooting that is contentious.
Sorry Rosie, but It must be pointed out that there is just as much point in the existence of grouse as any other organism. They’re a natural component of the ecosystems in which they occur, and are in no way “artificial” as your comment appears to imply.
That said, the whole existence of grouse shooting IS pointless.
My thoughts exactly, leave nature alone and it will regulate itself. The shooter likes killing for the sake of it, why else would they breed and release Phesant and other game birds prior to their shooting season?
Explain your last para please
Hi JB, As you seem to know the gas gun is intended to deter Black-backed gulls can I assume either you or persons known to you put it there. The law also states, disturbing any bird at or near it`s nest, intentionally or unintentionally is an offence, so if that is the reason for the gas gun at that site then it`s not legal, I doubt very much there is a crop needing protection on a grouse moor, unless you can advise me otherwise.
So true, but failed to get a mention just ravens
It appears to me that none of the comments are helpful in resuming the end of this actual problem with the gas-guns. Therefore wouldn’t it be better to go to the top which is Defra and ask why they are involved at all, if it’s to do with just the safety of the Grouse and the Hen Harriers then so be it, if it is more than that go the those who know best the Derbyshire Wildlife Trust and the RSBP they should tell you what is going off. And why.
‘So here we are, seven years later, and this issue is still not resolved.’
Why doesn’t that come as any surprise whatsoever?
Until we have strong government and councils who will protect wildlife areas properly, including those grouse moors especially, and the wildlife within from such tactics and others will anything get close to being sorted.
Punishments need to be far stronger and swifter in happening. Our judiciary needs a huge ground swell of change to get it to be able to do so.
Surely those gas guns being out in the open like that must be some kind of health and safety issue?
What would happen if the moor happened, by chance to catch fire, with those gas canisters enclosed by fire? Or exposed to direct sunlight for a long period? It is beyond belief they are able to leave such things like that out in the open that could be such a danger to life, human and animal.
Ever been to a camp site. Hahahah full of the wretched things, and quite a few gas bottles too.
ALL PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAKE WILDLIFE CRIME INTOLERABLE, HARSH sentences, no excuses, make land owners responsible, and STOP the BO110X……Ban Blood sports..
I totally agree 👍
Simple Answer.
Rural living demands a bit of give and take. Power tends to flow — as it always did in rural land — from the largest landowner, or his factor, in the area. This gives their agents great power in local Community and regional Councils as, with their fingers in most of the local pies, they can make life easy, or difficult, for many who live there.
The Official Rules and Guidelines changed over the decades to “nod and a wink” for of control but little changed on the ground. The people to speak too are still the same, as many are self employed businessmen, farmers or simply landowners the symbiotic relationships, involved ensures that power flows from the top down and anyone bucking that relationship will very quickly come to the understanding that to continue living or working peacefully there means turning a “Nelson’s Eye” to the legal infractions that take place habitually.
This is why thousands of snare lines are attached and left unattended for sometimes months at a time ; not because people agree with the cruelty this incorporates but because they know the unspoken consequences.
This corruption of social norms that many enjoy in other environments is why this serial form of criminality is proving so hard to confront and bring to book. Every rule and guideline in the book is twisted to suit the powerful and local hiring policies ensure that most who live and work in these areas are unofficially vetted as to their relationship with areas of concern.
Most who are not involved in the shooting industry oppose these infractions but understand very well the consequences that will fall upon them whould they fail to conform.
Jingle & mingle, hunting & shooting. The we’ll do just as we like attitude from the cocoon of old money
What drugs are you all taking if you don’t like country life then stay in the towns don’t bring your ideas and ideals to us we have hunted and shot in the countryside for as long as guns have existed and with other weapons before that I don’t agree with anyone persecuting any species that is not vermin or quarry and love seeing the many varied species our country has to offer. Shooting is not a pastime of the rich it has more working class participants than rich ones that is just another delusion of the Townies
I’m sick of this world where people just want to moan for the sake of it live and let live is my motto it’s funny though that the moors controlled by the non shooters are always catching fire and are way behind the biodiversity of the ones managed by shooters strange that with all the money and resources these charities have they can’t even get their core objectives right perhaps it’s time you opened your minds and took that onboard for the benefit of the wildlife you all claim to love
have you run out of legal quarry to shoot that you now have to turn to birds of prey as targets ?, i used to be a hunter/shooter until recently but due to other shooters lack of respect for wildlife i decided to give it up,everything was just a target!
Brilliant Steve, youv’e inspired me to watch twenty minutes of “League of Gentleman” clips on YT (again) and have a bloody good laugh. Cheers.
Love it!!
‘live and let live is my motto’
If the shooting industry could apply that to raptors then they wouldn’t be facing a ban.
live and let live is my motto So why shoot anything ?
I would disagree with your comment that shooting and hunting by the working class in the countryside has existed for time immemorial.
Hunting has always been the privilege of the landowning classes, and the history of law in the UK appears to make this very clear .
In medieval times peasants caught breaking the very strict hunting laws were subject to very harsh penalties which included hanging . Hunting was very much the preserve of the monarch and nobility. No doubt poaching went on, but woe betide those that got caught.
In more modern times the various Poaching Acts were introduced as early as 1820’s with the Night Poaching Act in 1828, which made it an offence to take or destroy game or rabbits on any land, including public roads and paths. This Act, even made it an offence to enter any land with a gun, snare or other instrument, and offenders could be jailed or deported to the British colonies overseas. The Game Act 1831, made it an offence to trespass on any land in pursuit of game, woodcock, snipe or rabbits during daylight hours.
Therefore to suggest all those who live or lived in the countryside have hunted is simply another delusion and countryside myth, as the laws which have governed, and continue to govern how we live, clearly indicate that hunting was, and is still very much restricted to the land owning classes, and those to whom they give their express permission.
The commercialisation of shooting has opened this up somewhat to those that can afford to pay the associated costs, but I would suggest these costs preclude most people on lower wages, which is probably how the working classes are still defined.
And I’m sick of the ignorant who assume that those opposed to driven shooting are “townies”. I’ve shot, fished and put meat on the table by doing it but object to the management of our precious uplands for DGS. Oh and legally there is no avian vermin and precious little mammalian either. The diatribe about wildlife charities is just the usual uniformed prejudicial bollocks.
The old ‘these are country ways and you townies should bugger off back to town if you don’t like them’ argument is tiresomely trotted out time and again by people such as yourself but I’m afraid it doesn’t hold water. All sorts of people live and make their living in the countryside and they do NOT all share the same views on every issue relating to rural life. Likewise, people who shoot are not exclusively ‘country folk’ – many are people who live and make their living in town and visit the countryside to engage in shooting. In any case, where someone lives has no bearing on their right to engage in the debate around any issue of public concern. No-one is suggesting country-dwellers should only be allowed to hold or express opinions relating to rural issues!
As to the wealth of shooters, I am sure there are working class people who enjoy shooting but I don’t think there is much argument that driven grouse shooting is very much the preserve of the well-heeled. The wealth of the participants has no bearing, though, on whether it is acceptable to prevent the breeding of rare bird species which are supposed to be protected by law which is the subject of this blog post.
You must be extremely old to have been hunting as long as guns have been invented!!
Does killing wildlife give you immortality?
Certainly hasn’t bought you Compassion.
What/Who exactly is Vermin here??
Makes me wonder 🤔
You truly are a strange bunch you all claim to love the countryside and it’s wildlife but your solution to its preservation is to leave things to fend for themselves or have them rely on the organisations that have proven time and again they are incapable of managing any land for the benefit of the creatures they are sworn to protect and yet my murderous community are the very people out there making sure that the habitat remains as hospitable for as many species as possible if my community are not going to do this then who will because it’s not working very well on all the land that is currently managed by non shooting concerns and that is a lot more than we do manage
We have two pairs of hen harriers on the moor that I help on which is managed for grouse and pheasant it is great to see them but in the last five years they haven’t managed to rear one chick they are on a part of the moor which is not near where we shoot or beat so to fail to rear has nothing to do with shooting so there is something else going wrong for these birds yet there is no one out on the moor looking into what the cause is because no one cares your all great behind your keyboards but not one of you are volunteering or managing the land which you do have access to your all too busy telling everyone else they are doing it wrong I have seen first hand what happens to land when it falls out of the hands of shooters or fishing clubs and it is never good instead of becoming these tropical oasis of diversity that many of you believe they become waste land devoid of anything but weeds and Bramble with little to no wildlife and the so called re wilders out there seem intent on turning everything back to woodland and that does nothing for biodiversity because they are killing the deer to prevent tree damage you may not agree with what we do and I know you will never understand why because you all have a Disney belief that animals all love each other and we are the ones screwing it up this is why the planet is doomed because those that can manage the land are being instructed by those that can’t and neither can reach a compromise because both have to be right
More unsubstantiated fairy stories.
Hi, Further to your post regarding gas guns and mannequins in N. Yorks some further info. We spent 2 days walking in Arkengarthdale at the beginning of June and was surprised at the sound of gas guns throughout the day from both sides of the valley. I enclose an image of a gas gun seen on the Hungry Hushes which was banging away around 06.00 am ( we had an early start). We also saw two hi vis mannequins in the distance on the moors whilst walking along Fremington Edge.
regards Eric
Also deployed in Glen Fenzie north of Ballater.
Hi. I wanted to contact you to ask on the advice on how to pursue a potential case of raptor persecution. It seems our local council spooked a nesting pair of peregrins from their well-established site (used for 7 years in a row). I would like to do something, as it’s enraging. If you’d find time please drop me an e-mail, I’ll share the details.
Hi Denis,
In the first instance I’d advise you contact the RSPB Investigations Team for advice. Explain the circumstances to them & they’ll advise on whether an offence has potentially been committed and can help you contact the relevant police wildlife crime officer if it warrants an investigation.
Some police forces are excellent and are on top of this stuff but others are not and might try to dismiss your concerns so expert advice from RSPB in first instance will save you a lot of time.
Here are the RSPB Investigation Team’s contact details:
https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/how-to-report-crimes/
Thanks for a prompt reply. I did so already and just reported to Essex police on their advice. Unfortunately we don’t have a dedicated wildlife unit here as I understand. I’ll wait for a reply from the police. Let me know if you want to know more details for your blog.
Essex Police’s Rural Crime Team are very good in my experience.
I’d be interested in the details of your incident but not just yet – the police have to be given the opportunity to investigate first. Well done for reporting it to them.
Thank you. I’ll let you know if anything comes out of it.
This is not a rural crime. Established site was in the city centre.
Don’t be put off by the term ‘Rural Crime’ team – they also deal with wildlife crime that happens anywhere:
https://www.essex.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/wc/wildlife-crime/what-is-wildlife-crime/
I’d like to respond to being told to “go back to town”. I don’t know what that means and this country folk v townies is utter shite.
I was born on a farm and have lived, like many people, in cities, villages and towns of various sizes – wherever my job took me.
I’m an intelligent and knowledgeable person and capable of forming my own views wherever I live.
As a journalist, now retired, I had direct involvement in these types of issues and interviewed people on both sides of the debate.
My views are not affected by my place of birth nor have they changed as I changed my place of residence.
We grew up being passionate about and caring for nature.
As children in the late 60s/early 70s, we would go to our local river and retrieve the plastic bags thrown in there by the farmers and those values remain.
I now live in a small town/large village by the coast. Every day I leave the 30mph limit to spend time in the countryside walking my dog and riding my horse, including over farmers’ fields and I treat their property with respect, unlike some people, including shooting folk who let their working dogs run all over the place disturbing wildlife and stressing the livestock.
So don’t go telling me where to live. It’s none of your business
Well said.
Well said, Rachel.
You may or may not remember the petition to the government of a few years ago asking for Driven Grouse Shooting to be banned.
Well, supporters of DGS raised a counter petition, which raised a fraction of the signatures in favour of a ban. Have a guess where the largest proportion of pro-DGS signatures came from…
Kensington and Chelsea!
“The countryside” is simply an artificial construct which these charlatans hide behind. Sadly, these idiots only succeed in grossly misrepresenting rural communities (which are not, and never will be defined by the recreational abuse of wildlife), and their dishonesty drives resentment in those who would otherwise be sympathetic to the many difficulties which affect these areas.
Bird scarers are a menace to birds and a very selfish practice. If all land users deployed them, there would be NOWHERE for nesting birds to settle.
This cannot be allowed, even in part.
If few land users deployed them, the target birds would occupy neighbours’ land that didn’t have scarers. Selfish and immoral.
If I was out walking on the moors , and came across one of these gas guns,I would definitely remove it myself.
I find it difficult to believe any gamekeeper would use these , they serve no purpose whatsoever on a keepered moor, I would think they had been placed there by people to try and create a false story, if you look at actual facts and evidence even on the governments own websites birds of prey including harriers are doing better and rearing more young on these moors than any where elsewhere, the facts speak for themselves..
Hi Russell, I sense you are relatively new to the subject? Masses of stuff to read about in addition to the narrow, subtly worded & potentially misleading NE Brood Management Plan updates on the government website. You could start with…
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6424969/
Yet some here, who profess to represent the very activity that you’re attempting to defend are claiming that the dummies are indeed placed there by those involved in said activity, for “conservation” purposes. Are they lying?
And: Given your claim that…
“birds of prey including harriers are doing better and rearing more young on these moors than any where elsewhere (sic)”…
Which of “these moors” precisely? Name them, and provide links to the peer-reviewed evidence that support your statement.
Or are you yet another who is just parroting shooting sector fabrications?
Do your own research as I did it’s out there,
Really?
Having made a complete idiot of yourself with false claims regarding gas guns, do you honestly want to go down that road?
Evidence, of the peer-reviewed kind, now. Put up or shut up.
Oops. Should read gas guns, not dummies.
https://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/news/14580711.gamekeepers-defend-gas-guns/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/gamekeepers-back-use-of-gas-gun-bird-scarers-on-grouse-moors/
https://news.scottishgamekeepers.co.uk/2016/06/gamekeepers-defend-scarers-for-raven.html
Nuff said.
“if you look at actual facts and evidence even on the governments own websites birds of prey including harriers are doing better and rearing more young on these moors than any where elsewhere, the facts speak for themselves..”
That is a BIG LIE, isn’t it?
From https://naturalengland.blog.gov.uk/2022/03/24/licensing-diversionary-feeding-of-hen-harriers-on-and-around-grouse-moors/
“Illegal persecution on land managed for grouse shooting is the main threat to the recovery of Hen Harriers, and is often underpinned by the fact that nesting harriers are known to predate Red Grouse chicks.”
From https://www.gov.uk/government/news/study-suggesting-widespread-illegal-killing-of-hen-harriers-on-english-grouse-moors-published
“Research published today in Nature Communications shows the likelihood of hen harriers dying, or disappearing is ten times higher in areas covered by grouse moor…
This long-term study has enabled patterns of disappearances to be assessed across a large number of birds. This provides overwhelming evidence that illegal killing is occurring on some grouse moors, where some gamekeepers view hen harriers as a threat to their grouse stocks.”
From https://www.nwcu.police.uk/news/wildlife-crime-press-coverage/hen-harriers-vanishing-due-to-illegal-killing-study/
“Hen harriers are disappearing on English grouse moors due to illegal killing, according to a scientific study.”
“Nuff said” ? Express your views, but if you want to do it with this sort of sloppy style then please hold the lofty nit-picking (“sic”) of other people’s use of English (which may just have been a typing error).
I think you’ll find that the use of common slang is a perfectly acceptable way of making a point. Furthermore, the accompanying links are not an expression of my views, but simply evidence which counters the erroneous statement of the commenter to whom the reply is addressed.
Must try harder.
Gas guns being used also at Gressingham near Hornbt
All comments are bs. On both sides. Hunting in it’s original form was survival. End off. So all the sad f@#ks with small dicks and fat wallets and a gun that kill are just sadistic,insecure,power tipping bigots. Ask most of them to fight someone or something without a weapon and theyll bag themselves. No war but the class war!!!!!!!!
If the land doesn’t belong to you…then mind your own business and be grateful you are allowed to walk on it.
The arrogance and entitlement of the tweed disease writ large. That’s good satire!😄
the land may no belong to us but the wildlife belongs to us all