Guns up for hen harriers – new report confirms what’s been known for decades

Scottish Natural Heritage (now re-branded as NatureScot) has published a new report today from it’s controversial ‘Heads up for Hen Harriers’ project.

It’s findings confirm what’s been known for decades – breeding hen harriers aren’t very successful on driven grouse moors but are more successful on moors where there’s little or no gamebird shooting. Gosh, who knew?

[This hen harrier was critically injured in an illegally-set trap next to a nest on Leadhills Estate in 2019. He was rescued by members of the Scottish Raptor Study Group, with an almost severed leg. A specialist vet at the SSPCA did all he could to save him but eventually the extent of his injuries were too much and he had to be euthanised. Photo by Ruth Tingay]

But before we get in to this latest report of the bleedin’ obvious, here’s some background for new readers.

The Heads up for Hen Harriers Project is a Scottish Government-funded initiative, led by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH, now NatureScot) in partnership with the grouse moor owners’ lobby group Scottish Land & Estates (SLE), RSPB Scotland and the National Wildlife Crime Unit.

The idea behind this project, which began in 2015, is that sporting estates agree to have cameras installed at hen harrier nests to identify the causes of nest failure. This is a flawed idea right from the off. We all know the main reason behind the declining hen harrier population – illegal persecution on intensively managed driven grouse moors – it has been documented time and time and time again, in scientific papers and government-funded reports. So, if you put an ‘official Project camera’ on a hen harrier nest situated on a driven grouse moor, the gamekeepers will know about it and won’t touch that nest (although they’re quite likely to try and bump off the young once they’ve left the nest but are hanging around the grouse drives, away from the nest camera). So if the nest then fails for natural reasons (e.g. poor weather, predation), the Project will only identify those issues as the cause of failure, and not the illegal persecution issue. The grouse-shooting industry will then use those (biased) results to shout about illegal persecution not being an issue. We’ve seen this many times already.

I’ve blogged about this project many times over the last five years and have been highly critical of its claims, particularly about the so-called ‘partnership working’. Basically it looks like a massive greenwashing exercise (e.g. see hereherehereherehereherehereherehere, here and here). Andy Wightman MSP also condemned the project in a Parliamentary debate in 2017. You can read the transcript here and watch the video here (and note the stony silence after Andy’s speech!).

The estates involved in this project have insisted on remaining anonymous, and this has allowed both SNH and SLE to publish some pretty outrageous claims without anybody else being able to scrutinise the taxpayer-funded data (e.g. see here and here). This is astonishing, and a preliminary look at the results presented in today’s report do not support some of the earlier claims made about ‘successful’ hen harrier nests on driven grouse moors. I’ll be looking at this more closely in due course.

So, back to today’s report. It’s a short-ish summary, presenting an analysis of a proportion of the camera images captured during the project. You can download it here:

The most important result is written on page 6, and there’s an accompanying table on page 7. It goes like this:

Fourteen (56%) of the 25 estates involved in the scheme had driven grouse moors employing full time keepers. Despite their involvement for 46 estate years only four nests were found. Just one was successful (25%) and produced four young‘.

If that isn’t damning evidence then I don’t know what is.

NatureScot has published a press release to accompany the publication of today’s report, as follows:

The success of one of Scotland’s rarest birds of prey, hen harriers, is closely linked to the age of the parent birds, prey availability and land use, concludes a report published by NatureScot today.

The report, based on five years of camera evidence on 28 estates participating in the Heads Up for Harriers partnership project, found the age of the adult male bird is a key factor in breeding. There was a 91% success rate when males were older than one year, irrespective of the age of the adult female bird. 

Not surprisingly, the report also found that nesting attempts and fledging success were higher during warm, dry spring weather, with wetter weather having a negative impact on both the harriers and availability of prey.

The research also found that hen harriers prey were birds 89% of the time with mammals making up the final 10%. However, the report concludes that hen harriers rarely prey on grouse. Meadow pipits were by far the most abundant prey at 77% of birds, with red grouse accounting for only 5.6% of prey.

Over 2 million hen harrier nest camera images were meticulously studied to reveal harrier behaviour and factors impacting their survival. While the majority of estates have some game shooting interest, analysis indicated that harriers fare best on those estates with no shooting interests, with more breeding attempts, nesting success and higher productivity recorded on the majority of non-sporting estates.

Hen harriers have a low survival rate for young birds, and the project showed that where the reasons for failure could be determined, all the nest failures were due to natural factors or predation by foxes and other birds.

Chair of the Heads Up for Harriers Group, Professor Des Thompson of NatureScot, said:

“Hen harriers continue to struggle in Scotland and they remain a rare species, although Scotland holds by far the majority of the UK population with 505 territorial pairs. This report shows that almost half of breeding adult female birds are four years or older and 87% of male birds are older than one year, despite the females being capable of breeding much earlier. This indicates a high turnover of young birds, and while the report does not speculate as to the reasons, this is a worrying statistic.”

Report author, Brian Etheridge, said:

“Some fascinating patterns in hen harrier breeding habits have been identified, such as a tendency for nesting on westerly facing slopes, with an increasing preference for nests in higher areas, and the low occurrence of grouse within the sampled 500 prey items.  This information should help land managers better cater for nesting harriers, while providing reassurance of the limited impact on game birds.”

Professor Thompson added: “The report is testimony to the work of the Heads Up for Harriers project group, particularly RSPB and Scottish Land & Estates, the project staff and those estates that have actively participated in the project.”

Information in the report was gleaned by analysing images from 52 hen harrier nests (37 of which had cameras installed), between them fledging 120 young birds.

Heads Up for Harriers is a Partnership for Action Against Wildlife Crime Scotland (PAW) Scotland project, led by NatureScot. From the project start in 2015, 52 hen harrier nests were located. 35 of these were successful in fledging a total of 120 young. Trail cameras were installed at 37 nests and over two million images recorded.

The Heads Up for Harriers Group are considering a shift in focus to concentrate on areas which can benefit most from intervention. The group will be discussing how best to achieve this with the PAW Scotland Raptor Group in the future.

ENDS

That penultimate sentence in the press release is telling. Reading between the lines, it looks like the plug is finally being pulled on this ridiculous scheme. ‘….Considering a shift in focus to concentrate on areas which can benefit most from intervention‘ – FFS, why not just say it? Why not just acknowledge, in full, that ongoing illegal persecution of hen harriers on many driven grouse moors is what’s causing the catastrophic population decline of the hen harrier?

Look – 45 hen harriers ‘missing’ or confirmed illegally killed since 2018 (see here).

By the way, tomorrow marks the one year anniversary of the Werritty Review on grouse moor management being submitted to the Scottish Government. We are still waiting for the Government’s response.

Take action – ask your MP to attend this debate on Weds to ban moorland burning

There’ll be a Westminster Hall debate on Wednesday 18th November 2020 (4.30-5.30pm) on moorland burning, moved by Olivia Blake MP (Sheffield Hallam).

It’s been a year since the Westminster Government committed to banning burning on peatlands, including the deliberate rotational burning on blanket bog (see here). However, nothing has happened and Ministers have been accused of stalling to protect grouse moor owners (see here).

In advance of this parliamentary debate on Wednesday, the RSPB has launched an e-action which allows you to sign up and have a letter sent automatically to your MP to urge them to attend the debate and speak up against peatland burning and urge the Government to act on its commitments.

The letter looks like this:

If you’d like to support this e-action and get your MP to attend the debate, please visit the RSPB’s e-action webpage here. It takes seconds to complete.

Buzzard-shooting caught on camera

Press release from RSPB (16 November 2020)

Horror as buzzard gunned down on nature reserve boundary

A member of the public witnessed and filmed the moment the bird of prey was shot out of the sky

The buzzard was found fatally injured over a week later

Due to its injuries the bird could not be saved and sadly had to be euthanised

The RSPB is appealing to the public for information regarding the illegal shooting of a protected bird of prey.

On 10 October 2020, members of the public out walking stopped to watch a buzzard in flight, on land adjoining the south-west boundary of the RSPB’s Northward Hill reserve near High Halstow. One of them started filming it on a mobile phone when they suddenly heard a loud shot, and the bird crumpled and fell from the sky before their eyes.

The witnesses called the police on 101. Kent Police and the RSPB conducted a search of the area, but the body could not be found. However, a few days later, on 19 October, a birdwatcher reported seeing a buzzard with a broken wing close to where the buzzard had fallen. RSPB reserve staff set out and discovered a badly injured buzzard on the ground. It was rushed to a local vet but the bird couldn’t be saved and had to be humanely euthanised.

An x-ray of the body revealed that the bird had four pieces of shot lodged in its wing, shoulder and leg. The injury to the wing, which had caused the break, was consistent with the timing of the recent witnessed shooting. However, three of the pellets were older, indicating that the bird had been shot before on an earlier occasion.

Police have spoken with a man in connection with the incident.

All birds of prey are protected by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. To intentionally kill or injure one is a criminal offence and could result in an unlimited fine or up to six months in jail. Yet according to the RSPB’s recent Birdcrime report, there were 85 confirmed incidents of bird of prey persecution in the UK in 2019 – with many more likely to have gone undetected. More buzzards were the object of persecution in 2019 than any other raptor species. 

The witness, who does not wish to be named, said:

Northwood is a really special place for my family. We had just lost a loved one, so my dad suggested we take a walk to clear our heads. We were watching a buzzard flying together with another bird of prey, and I quickly got my phone out and started filming it. It was a beautiful sight. Then suddenly we heard a crack and the buzzard crumpled and fell to the ground. It was a feeling of utter shock; we couldn’t believe what we’d just seen. My sister was in floods of tears, we were just so shaken. It was not what we’d envisaged for our walk together. One moment we were watching something so alive, then the next a human had needlessly and senselessly taken it away – it felt like such a horrific waste.”

Mark Thomas, RSPB Head of Investigations, said: “Nature has the power to lift our spirits, never more so than in these difficult times. No-one should have to witness wildlife being killed illegally before their eyes and our utmost sympathy goes out to the family.

We regularly gather evidence of raptor persecution, either finding bodies full of shot or illegal traps, but it’s rare that a bird is killed and filmed right in front of someone. This incident really brings home the horrible reality of what is happening to our birds of prey.

We are so grateful to them for picking up the phone and reporting this incident. We know that passing on information about any crime can be difficult, but if you do see anything, or have any information about this or any other crime involving birds of prey, please call our confidential hotline number (0300 999 0101). Your call could make all the difference and prevent more birds being killed.

We are in a climate and ecological emergency and losing our wildlife at a frightening rate. We all have a role to play, which is why we need an immediate halt to incidents such as this.”

If you have any information relating to this incident, call Kent on 101 and quote the crime reference: 11-0064. You can also call the RSPB’s confidential Raptor Crime Hotline on 0300 999 0101.

ENDS

There is a short clip of the buzzard-shooting on the RSPB blog here

Scottish Parliament to vote on declaring a nature emergency

Press release from the Scottish Greens (15 November 2020)

Scottish Parliament to vote on a nature emergency

The Scottish Parliament must declare a nature emergency to reverse the alarming decline in species, the Scottish Greens have said.

The Scottish Greens are set to put the declaration to a vote at Holyrood which would make Scotland the first country in the world to recognise that the rapid decline of species and wildlife populations across the world constitutes an emergency.

Nature is declining globally at rates unprecedented in human history, and in Scotland one in nine species face extinction. The motion will call for a target to halt all declines by 2030, and for 30% of Scotland’s land and sea to be set aside for a nature recovery.

The call comes following multiple warnings about the rapid loss of species abundance and distribution, and habitat loss and ecosystems in decline.

A WWF report in September revealed global numbers of mammals, birds, fish and insects have fallen by two-thirds since 1970, including a drastic decline in numbers of the Arctic Skua in Orkney.

The Mammal Society placed a number of Scottish species on its ‘red list’ in August, including the Wildcat, Mountain Hare, Beaver and Red Squirrel, as well as hedgehogs and species of bats and voles.

And Scottish Government figures released in the summer reveal that the decline in nature has not slowed in Scotland in recent years.

Commenting, Scottish Greens environment spokesperson Mark Ruskell said:

Everyone from the UN to David Attenborough and nature organisations here in Scotland are warning that our nature is in freefall and there’s no sign of it slowing unless we take action now.

Here in Scotland one in nine species already face extinction and instead of taking the bold action needed we’ve had years of neglect, with vested interests consistently prioritised over wildlife protection. To make matters worse, simple opportunities to improve the situation are being missed, particularly when it comes to planning laws and targeting farming subsidies.

If we are going to reverse this alarming decline in Scotland’s nature, then parliament must declare a nature emergency this week, and commit to devote 30 per cent of Scotland’s land and sea to restoring nature by 2030.”

ENDS

The Scottish Greens have launched a webpage dedicated to the declaration of a Nature Emergency and they are asking members of the public to sign a petition in support, in advance of the motion in Parliament on Wednesday 18 November 2020.

You’ll notice that they’ve chosen a photograph of an intensively managed grouse moor to illustrate their case. This is no coincidence, given that they’re calling for action to ‘end those practices that are deeply environmentally damaging and fundamentally at odds with protecting nature’, including:

  • Driven grouse moor management
  • Large scale peat extraction 
  • Damaging fishing practices like dredging in sensitive, nature-rich marine environments

If you’d like to sign in support of their petition please visit the webpage here

Lord Botham uses new platform to continue slagging off RSPB & Chris Packham

It’s been a while.

For regular blog readers you’ll remember ex-England cricketer Ian Botham as being the figurehead for the group ‘You Forgot the Birds’, an astroturfing PR outfit funded by the grouse shooting industry and whose main aim seemed to be slagging off the RSPB and Chris Packham.

[Intellectual heavyweight Ian Botham, photographer unknown]

Botham was an inspired choice for fronting this group: his profile always guaranteed press attention and his gaffes were legendary and helped pour derision all over the industry’s claims without anyone else having to work very hard.

As a classic example, this is still one of the funniest car-crash radio interviews ever, recorded in 2017 when Botham was interviewed on BBC Five Live talking about how the public spirited game shooting industry was planning to donate thousands of potentially lead-poisoned pheasants and partridges to the poor and needy:

Botham threw a massive wobbler after the interview and threatened to boycott the BBC who, he claimed, had “ambushed me with with their anti-shooting agenda” (see here).

‘You Forgot the Birds’ seems to have vanished in recent years, perhaps stepping aside for another astroturfing outfit set on attacking the RSPB and anyone else who might question the mighty grouse shooting industry (see here) but Botham’s not been fading in to obscurity.

Earlier in the summer it was announced that he’d been made a life peer by Boris Johnson, reportedly for his grand support of Brexit, and he’s now ensconced in the House of Lords.

[Not his official portrait, obvs. Someone must have hacked his Lords webpage]

Judging by a comment piece in today’s Telegraph, it looks like we can expect to hear more from Lord Botham over the coming months/years as he takes full advantage of this new platform.

This’ll be entertaining. Although he seems a bit rusty. It took him until the third paragraph in today’s piece for him to start slagging the RSPB and a staggering delay of seven paragraphs before he started on Chris Packham.

RSPCA appeals for information after sparrowhawk shot in Scunthorpe

Article from the Lincolnite, written by Ellis Karran, dated 13 November 2020.

Bird of prey had to be put down after it was shot with an air rifle

RSPCA investigating the case

The RSPCA is appealing for tighter controls on air weapons after a sparrowhawk was put to sleep due to being shot by an air rifle in Scunthorpe.

The bird was found lying on its back with its wings out after flying out of woods near Darnholme Crescent on Wednesday, before crashing into a car because of its injuries from the gunshot.

A passer-by spotted the bird of prey and contacted the RSPCA who brought it in for treatment.

The decision was made to put the sparrowhawk down as a result of its injuries, with the bird’s chest and wing damaged beyond repair and rehabilitation being impossible.

[Photos by RSPCA]

RSPCA inspector Claire Mitchell, investigating the case, said: “This poor sparrowhawk was in a very bad way after being shot and after further assessment, very sadly the decision was made to put the bird to sleep to end its suffering.

It is likely that the bird was shot with an air gun while in flight, and it is very concerning that somebody in the area was taking shots at wildlife in this way.

Whilst there are some shooting practices which are legal, it is an offence under the Wildlife & Countryside Act to intentionally injure, kill or take a wild bird, except under licence.

Anyone found guilty could face an unlimited fine and/or six months imprisonment.

The animal welfare charity are now appealing for information about the incident, asking anyone who can help resolve this incident to call 0300 1238018.

ENDS

Reports of wildlife crime almost double according to new figures from Police Scotland

Press release from Police Scotland (13th November 2020)

Reports of wildlife crime almost double

Wildlife crime reports have nearly doubled, according to the latest figures from Police Scotland.

Between April and September 2020, Police Scotland recorded 203 wildlife crime offences compared to 111 in the same period in 2019/20, an increase of 82.9%.

Detection rates also increased, rising to 55.2% in 2020 compared to 34.2% in the same six month period in 2019.

The latest figures were released in Police Scotland’s Quarterly Performance Report covering April to September 2020/21.

[This hen harrier died after suffering horrendous injuries caused by an illegal trap on a grouse moor on Leadhills Estate, South Lanarkshire. Photo by Ruth Tingay]

Detective Chief Superintendent Gary Cunningham, Police Scotland’s lead for Wildlife Crime, said: “Scotland’s diverse wildlife is one of its greatest assets, yet there are those who seek to destroy it. Wildlife crime has an enormous impact not only on our natural heritage but also on those communities that rely on the employment and tourism it brings.

Investigating wildlife crime can be demanding and complex, it requires specialist skills. Earlier this year we introduced a new training course to build our capability and to enhance the skills and knowledge of our officers.

We will continue to invest in tackling wildlife crime and ensuring our officers are trained to the highest level. But we are also asking the public to be aware and if they see anything suspicious to report it to us“.

ENDS

This increase in reported wildlife crimes in Scotland mirrors a surge in reported raptor persecution crimes in England during lockdown (e.g. see here and here).

Political questions being asked about out-of-season muirburn licence issued to Leadhills Estate

Over the last few weeks a series of Freedom of Information requests has revealed that Scottish Natural Heritage (now rebranded as NatureScot) issued an out-of-season muirburn licence to Leadhills Estate, allowing gamekeepers to set fire to parts of the grouse moor in September 2020.

Four blogs have been written about it: here, here, here and here.

[Grouse moors at Leadhills Estate, photo by Ruth Tingay]

This licensing decision was astonishing for a number of reasons, not least because at the time muirburn had been banned across the whole of Scotland after emergency Coronavirus legislation was passed in April 2020, but also because Leadhills Estate is notorious as being at the centre of alleged wildlife crime investigations (approx 70) over the last 17 years and is currently serving a three-year General Licence restriction, imposed on the estate by SNH because Police Scotland provided ‘clear evidence’ of wildlife crimes having being committed by persons unknown in recent years. The estate is reportedly under further police investigation since more allegations have been made this year, so how come it’s receiving ‘special treatment’ from the licensing authority?

Well this is a question being asked by Claudia Beamish MSP, according to her Twitter feed today:

Claudia is very familiar with the recent history of Leadhills Estate as it’s in her south Scotland constituency. Claudia is also the spokesperson on Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform for Scottish Labour so she’s well-versed in these issues and has regularly supported and hosted events for the Revive coalition for grouse moor reform.

Thanks, Claudia, it’ll be interesting to hear what SNH (NatureScot) has to say about this particular licence.

There’ll be another blog, shortly, on another out-of-season muirburn licence that SNH issued to Leadhills Estate…..

Environment Minister acknowledges potential economic impact of wildlife crime linked to grouse shooting

It’s been another year of shocking wildlife crimes being uncovered on grouse moors in the UK, including the illegal poisoning of this iconic white-tailed eagle, found dead on a grouse moor inside the Cairngorms National Park in the spring (see here).

[The poisoned white-tailed eagle, photo by Police Scotland]

Last week, Scottish Greens MSP Alison Johnstone lodged a Parliamentary question asking what assessment the Scottish Government has made of the impact on the rural economy of wildlife crime linked to grouse moor management (see here).

Her question, and a supplementary one, were ‘answered’ by Environment Minister Mairi Gougeon during Portfolio Question Time yesterday in the Scottish Parliament.

When I say ‘answered’, I use the term loosely. A more fitting word might be ‘sidestepped’.

Here’s how it went:

It’s good that Mairi Gougeon acknowledges the potential economic damage of wildlife crime linked to grouse moor management – it’d be insane to claim that the photograph of that poisoned eagle, laying dead on a grouse moor inside the Cairngorms National Park of all bloody places, would not have an economic impact and, as the Minister pointed out, on Scotland’s international reputation.

But the question Alison asked was ‘What assessment of that economic damage has the Scottish Government undertaken?’

None, it seems.

Still, as the Government’s response to the Werritty Review is imminent, we can all look forward to “decisive action” on wildlife crime linked to grouse moor management, as Environment Cabinet Secretary Roseanna Cunningham assured us all in August after a huge outpouring of public anger about this poisoned sea eagle (see here).

SNP leadership faces grassroots rebellion at conference over watered down grouse shooting motion

The scandal that is driven grouse shooting continues to feature prominently in the Scottish media as pressure continues to mount on the Scottish Government to respond to the Werritty Review on grouse moor licensing, a report that was submitted to the Government almost a year to the day (18 November 2019).

Last week The National ran an article on the 25 regional SNP branches who had submitted a motion for debate at the national conference calling for an end to driven grouse shooting in Scotland (see here).

The motion was proposed by councillor Julie Bell of Kirriemuir and Dean (Angus) and seconded by Ruth Maguire MSP. The resulting personal abuse hurled at them on social media from those with a vested interest in maintaining grouse shooting won’t have gone unnoticed by Julie, Ruth or their party colleagues and probably beyond.

Meanwhile, the motion appears to have been watered down considerably, despite being ‘the most backed resolution this year’, and as a result, Ruth Maguire MSP has lodged an amendment. The National ran an article on this yesterday, as follows:

THE SNP leadership faces a grassroots rebellion at this year’s conference over plans to end grouse shooting in Scotland.

The prospect of a vote on the subject has upset the Scottish Gamekeeper’s Association, who warn that the party risk alienating the countryside.

An initial motion to conference calling for an end to “unsustainable practices on grouse moors including the snaring, trapping and killing of hundreds of thousands of animals, muirburn and mass outdoor medication” was popular with members, being the most backed resolution put forward.

However, it was missing from the conference agenda. Instead there was another resolution which called for Scottish Government to continue its work “on regulating sporting estates in order to protect our biodiversity, native species and peatlands.”

MSP Ruth Maguire said this didn’t go far enough. Backed by her Holyrood colleague Christine Graham and a number of branches, she’s now submitted an amendment which urges the party to back the licensing of all shooting estates, and “move away from driven grouse shooting towards more sustainable and diverse land uses”.

Maguire said: “The original motion submitted to conference appears to be the most backed resolution this year showing the strength of support within the party for tackling Scotland’s grouse moors.

“For the huge swathes of Scotland they use up, driven grouse moors are one of the most destructive land uses in Scotland for our wildlife and environment, offering little economic benefit compared to other land uses.

“As recent polling shows almost three quarters of Scots are against grouse shooting and the SNP membership want the chance to put the party on the forefront of public opinion. This amendment, like the original motion, seeks to end the unsustainable practices of grouse shooting and in line with land reform, make our land work better for our people, our wildlife and the environment.”

Scottish Gamekeepers Association Chairman Alex Hogg said: “The SNP, down the years, has enjoyed strong levels of support within working gamekeepers, their families and extended groups in rural constituencies.

“These are ordinary, hard-working individuals and families who vote for people and parties they feel will represent the interests of their communities.

“Recent policy decisions have left them alienated. Land working people, just now, are angry.

“They feel the Scottish Government is no longer listening or supporting them, despite the many benefits their work brings to the Scottish countryside and economy.”

ENDS

Funny, the so-called ‘strong levels of support’ for the SNP that I’ve seen from the SGA’s members and supporters over the last few years has consisted almost entirely of vile personal misogynistic abuse.

Here’s a short example targeting Environment Cabinet Secretary Roseanna Cunningham in March 2018 after she spoke to campaigners outside Holyrood about the mass slaughter of mountain hares on grouse moors (thanks to the blog reader who’s been compiling this material):

Roseanna hasn’t been the only target – First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has received ‘special attention’ as has Environment Minister Mairi Gougeon. And it’s not just female politicians in the SNP who have been at the receiving end of this disgraceful behaviour – politicians in the Scottish Greens and Labour have also been targeted, as have campaigners, bloggers, researchers, journalists, scientists, police officers, lawyers, raptor workers, tv presenters, bird ringers, satellite taggers, funders, charity workers, in fact anyone who dares even hint that driven grouse shooting is a Victorian throwback with huge environmental costs has been a victim of this abusive and targeted harassment.

There’ll be more on this subject shortly.