Back in March 2025 I blogged about the prospect of another futile ‘dialogue’ process between gamebird shooters and conservationists, purportedly to find a ‘solution’ to the ongoing illegal killing of hen harriers on grouse moors (see here).
There’s nothing novel about this approach. Those with long memories will recall the utterly pointless six year ‘Hen Harrier Dialogue’, facilitated by the Environment Council between 2006-2013, where grouse shooting industry representatives sat around a table pretending to have ‘constructive dialogue’ with conservationists. Whilst that was going on, the English Hen Harrier population was decimated to a single breeding pair.
That dialogue process achieved absolutely nothing for Hen Harrier conservation, but everything for the grouse shooting industry, who were able to masquerade as partners and claim to be working hard to address the illegal killing, thus delaying any hint of enforcement action from Defra.
The process eventually collapsed after three conservation organisations realised they’d been had and left, one by one (RSPB here, Northern England Raptor Forum here, Hawk & Owl Trust here).
This absurd charade has been repeated since with other pseudo ‘partnerships’, established over the years with good intentions to tackle raptor persecution but ultimately collapsing when the projects failed to meet any of the set targets (e.g. Peak District Bird of Prey Initiative here and here; and the Yorkshire Dales/Nidderdale Bird of Prey Partnership here and here).
It should be obvious but apparently it isn’t, that partnerships will only be successful if ALL participants share the same objectives. In the case of the conservation of the UK’s birds of prey, it’s clear that one side wants to protect raptors and the other side wants to kill them (either legally or illegally) because they’re perceived as a threat to their gamebird stocks.
The latest proposal for a ‘Hen Harrier Dialogue’ came at the beginning of this year from the Hen Harrier Taskforce, a police-led ‘partnership’ established to tackle the ongoing illegal killing of Hen Harriers on grouse moors. The ‘partners’ include the National Wildlife Crime Unit (NWCU), RSPB, Country Land & Business Association (CLA), BASC, National Gamekeepers Organisation, wildlife trusts (not sure which ones) and the National Parks.
Although from my FoI requests, it’s now become apparent that not all the partners supported the proposal.
Here’s a copy of the funding bid from the Hen Harrier Taskforce, sent to Defra via Natural England on 10 Feb 2025. They were asking for £400,000 for a three-year ‘dialogue’ process:
The RSPB, obviously mindful of the colossal amount of time and money its wasted on similar exercises, was not supportive, for the following reasons:
Fortunately, Defra was not supportive either and has turned down the funding bid.
Raptor Persecution UK 
shooters shouldn’t get any say now, they’ve had their chance. They should have fit for purpose licencing and reform of all shooting forced on them and any non compliant shoots closed down and the land taken over by the state for proper conservation.
good idea take there lands off them
These discussions around a table will do nothing whilst Grouse shooting is a huge income source for landowners. Its also a centuries old tradition with deep cultural routes and has sustained many countryside communities, with local people who have relied on it. DEFRA instead need to challenge the tradition and the economic gains, talk with local countryside communites, encourage the development of new ‘traditions’ and income sources like conservation of moorland and rewilding of land, which can bring in income through balanced eco-tourism ..e.g. Knepp in Sussex, but landowners have to be open to it, and be prepared to ‘share ‘ their land more fully. And sadly many are hard-line traditionalists.
i think we all should take up shooting because it seems to benefit everyone and everything???????????
Game shooting on Scottish estates ‘saves NHS millions’
If God had had the foresight to create the breech loading shotgun & pre-loaded cartridges on Day One instead of leaving it to the Victorians…he could have put his feet up for the other six days nevermind the Sunday, and everything in the world would have turned out all the better. One would think…
“And sadly many are hard-line traditionalists.”
They are also criminals, brutally cruel and destroying our environment:-(
Murder birds for fun is disgusting and vile
Defra doesn’t seem to serve a purpose if they don’t stop the subhuman killers. Action is urgent. Not waffle.
what chance does wildlife have all together if we a supposedly an intelligent species can not stop killing each other on an industrial level.
get rid of Defra.sack all of them.
disgusting murderers. They should all have their guns confiscated.
i agree
As a life long shooter ,clay targets only for the last 25 years or more, I can only agree that robust policing and licensing is required to counter the disgraceful persecution of raptor in this country, it happens in Scotland too. Anyone prosecuted and found guilty should have lifetime ban from shotgun possession and jailed for minimum of 1 year. Estates complicit in this crime should be prohibited for shooting activities.
Surely there can’t be much fun in skillfully shooting a fast moving clay target compared to a slow moving, frightened bird???
(Good on you : )
All these talking shops, getting us, and the Harriers, nowhere. Year, after year, after year, everyone knows what’s happening, and all right minded people know it has to stop, but in the middle are the authorities, that either don’t really care, or are complicit in the slaughter. I’ve said before, RSPB and police need a coordinated plan to stake out a top high profile target, and make sure any ensuing court case is cast iron sure to be successful.
I would guess there’s no shortage of high profile targets in the system already. That £400k would certainly buy lots of surveillance kit and pay a couple of wages for people to help run it. However, with the Moorland Association advising their member grouse moor owners to not give the police permission to conduct undercover surveillance on their landholdings (not that very many would have been inclined to do so anyway, whatever MA had said) I don’t think this type of thing is in prospect.
Hopefully the police will find a way of pushing on with this anyway, perhaps by lobbying for a couple of small changes to the law. If such changes / amendments are ever voted on by MP’s – that would really tell us something about the extent to which the DGS industry have influence over Labour MP’s.
I rather doubt had it come to fruition that nobody from the conservation side would have attended as it would be a complete waste of time. We need licensing and a great deal more enforcement.
these people ignore the fact that what rhey are doing is going g to have a knock on affect to the eco system if they carry on wiping out birds of prey, they are here for a reason,they are here to keep the balance in nature, they should take this seriously.
Well said everyone it’s gone on for too long I agree Defra all these insipid half hearted authorities if u can call them that are paying lip service dothing their cap all in each other’s pockets but do nothing and are complicit in the slaughter we just go round and round ending up no where hen harrier holocaust as I’ve said before it has to be seriously managed bans licence removal jail for criminals breaking the law is breaking the law. Zero tolerance.
You have recently lost your argument in front of the government with Ruth Tingay looking like spoilt child .Birds are being lost to bird flu and your anti farming, anti shooting zealous attitude destroys your own argument. ,
Stephen, do you ever have a point that relates to the actual content of a particular blog subject? Or can’t you be bothered to read them properly in order to put forward a reasoned argument that has some sort of focus? I am aware that fully thought out and well evidenced arguments are unwelcome on the YT fieldsports channel that you often comment on.
difficult to understand the point you’re making, it just seems like a disjointed, flailing rant ! Why not comment on the matter in hand, instead of this prejudiced sprawl.
“You have recently lost your argument … lost to bird flu… anti farming etc”
And yet another incoherent drive-by trolling, sounding exactly like some lead-contaminated nutter…
Note, these people never engage after dropping their load of non sequiturs because they cannot summon any logical position.
‘Sherlock’ Holmes, for example, seems to think that ‘bird flu’ causes satellite tags to (a) suddenly stop working (because it is called a ‘virus’) and (b) to then disappear off the face of the earth (because bird flu must ‘eat’ metal and plastic).
Toxic causes of dementia include exposure to heavy metals such as lead…
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16240488/#:~:text=Toxic%20causes%20of%20dementia%20include,to%20carbon%20monoxide%20and%20solvents.
Ban sport shooting period!
The murder of wildlife for some perverse ‘fun’ should be banned entirely. Those who claim it provides rural jobs are clutching at straws to justify this heinous past time. Ban all forms of hunting and shooting forthwith.
Living in rural Scotland I can confirm we also have an annual slaughter of game birds carried out by non-local participants who pay cash in hand to locals who may get a few days work – this can’t be described as sustainably contributing to the local economy. I can also confirm the large volume of birds often piled into a specially dug hole, covered over and left to rot in the name of ‘sport’ – disgusting. Too many raptors mysteriously ‘disappear’ around shooting estates here too…… And by the way Stephen, I live in a farming area where we have good farming methods, decent people working on and running those farms……I am not anti-farming but I am anti-murder of our wildlife.
Iv read all the replies to this topic, and all these people raise the same point more or less that all the talk in the world won’t stop the senseless killing of beautiful birds or pray. The big money people who own these shoots and the big wigs who pay stupid sums to shoot these game birds Always win out in the end .MONEY TALKS . I wish it didn’t.
lt is pointless suggesting to Steven Holmes et al that they properly address the argument. They cannot, because there is no reasoned and valid argument they can make. They fall back to dishing out slurs in an attempt to belittle their opponents, and employing diversionary tactics in the hope to move the conversation towards other problems and away from the immense damage and cruelty they use to promote their so called sport.