Thanks to the blog reader who sent in photos of another mannequin (hen harrier scarer), this time on a grouse moor in the North Pennines Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB).
Photos taken last Saturday (17th June 2023).
Other mannequins (hen harrier scarers) photographed on grouse moors this year include those seen in the Yorkshire Dales National Park (here and here) and the Peak District National Park (here).
Raptor Persecution UK 
Why are these not illegal on public land.
even dressed in shooters clothing!
Is it a scarer or just there to get them used to humans before the keeper turns up with the 12 bore
Just a red herring a disguise /pretence at being considerate in reality the game keeper poisons and shoots them. The authorities condone this crime , few are punished , they would rather arrest a teenager for dropping chewing gum in the street.
[Ed: comment deleted – inciting violence]
If I was to come across it the jacket would disappear.
Not public land.
What’s that got to do with it? .
“Why are these not illegal on public land. ”
Because it is private land: that is what it has got to do with it.
Scarecrows they are used to keep corvids away we use them on crows and foxes aren’t keen.
They actually assist ground nesting birds like hen harriers do some of you people actually have a clue about the countryside and how it works?
Scarecrows are good for hen harriers and other ground nesting birds ” mannequins” ha scare crows!
Sone of you are truly clueless we use them to deter crows thry take ground nesting birds eggs aka green plover , Hen Harriers, stone curlew etc.
Is their any chance some of your more countrywise and intelligent members can stop utter rubbish like this.
The green plovers we have numbers have increased due to corvid and fox control and deterents. They now breed because by using Scarecrows, plastic crows hanging upside down, shooting and gas guns.
The predators are controlled!
Mannequins laughable
Word salad.
Green Plover? I have never heard a Peewit / Lapwing referred to as a Green Plover anywhere at any time in anything other than a book. In the Yorkshire Dales and North Pennines at least, many people would be scratching their heads as to what you were on about. This is mildly suggestive that your knowledge base is perhaps not in these geographical areas under discussion, and that you have not been following or reading very widely about the well documented cat & mouse antics of keepers in these areas trying to snuff out hen harriers, over (especially) the past 25+years.
Totally agree!
Another idior defending the indefensible
xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx I’ll ut these where ever I want my land not yours
Well put too many clueless “do gooders” spouting off..I personally know of one Moor that gave up shooting over ..now it is bereft of ground nesting birds grouse ,,curlew .plovers and skylark pipits..mind you the is a good head of crow magpies even the ground nesting owls have left the Moor RSPB and the Packhamites are doing a damn good job of ( saving ) NOT our wildlife ..WILD JUSTICE ???? Its one sad sick joke
Too many self-styled, plastic “countrymen”, who think that a flat hat and tweed jacket are badges of authority, parroting myths, hearsay and old wives tales.
The public are wise to your dishonesty, and your sad and sorry little mob are becoming deservedly marginalised.
Couldn’t agree more
Where did the “ground nesting owls go” on this moor you know personally? You may be implying they were eaten by foxes when the keepering reduced. Or perhaps they moved to the land of milk and honey – an intensively keepered moor, such as the one shot at Broomhead (you will have read about it in the previous article on this site, I assume?) was trying to live on. To enjoy the benefits of living in an area where the foxes, crows & stoats are “controlled”…but it is a short lived easy life – as it is only a matter of time until they themselves are caught up with and likewise “controlled”. What do you think of the fate of that bird? I wonder if it may have attempted nesting on one grouse moor but been scared off by the likes of gas-guns & mannequins, then tried out life on a second lovely grouse moor with the evident unequivocal result.
“Scarecrows they are used to keep corvids away …”
They also scare Hen Harriers and all the other ground nesting birds from nesting…
“Scarecrows are good for hen harriers and other ground nesting birds…”
No, they are not: they scare them from nesting.
“Sone of you are truly clueless we use them to deter crows..”
They also deter Hen Harriers and other birds.
“Is their any chance some of your more countrywise and intelligent members can stop utter rubbish like this.”
Some of us can spell correctly, so it appears reasonably obvious that it is you who is unintelligent.
“The green plovers we have numbers have increased due to corvid and fox control and deterents. They now breed because by using Scarecrows, plastic crows hanging upside down, shooting and gas guns.”
The use of scare crows, plastic crows, shooting and gas guns all seek to deter Hen Harriers and other ground nesting birds from nesting.
“The predators are controlled!”
You are the biggest predator.
Well seen you are a keeper, no sense at all and extremely opinionated, we are farmers and we know 1st hand how keepers operate,
Lived in “the country” all my life, including some parts of the world that are the kind of wilderness guys like you would cr*p your kecks if you had to live and survive in…
And I say BS.
Human like figures, aka scarecrows, deter ALL birds.
“It’s only to scare away the birds that predate ground nests.” Idiot. With the scarecrow there, there won’t BE any ground nests. You’re either a fool, a fake or a willing shill for the estates. I know which I suspect.
At last someone that isn’t brainwashed and knows what they’re talking about. It’s their to deter corvids from carpet rolling the hills and eating every egg in sight including hen harrier eggs. It is the same with the gas gun well known as a crow scarer. Honestly I can believe how many people here think it’s to scare harriers these will help them
“An alternative approach to reduce breeding densities is to scare hen harriers away in spring, using agricultural gas guns, falconry eagles or people.”
Redpath et.al. 2010.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=F35224D44FE17B07C6DA90076CC5D2A8?doi=10.1.1.732.3100&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Well if this is the case why are all rspb reserves and other moorland projects of rewilding failing yet when you actually look đŸ‘€ with your own eyes on most of these grouse moorland estates seem to be booming with harriers and other birds of prey also. Is it because they try to deter corvids and foxes from destroying eggs and young chicks. I’m not one sided with one I’m just saying what I’ve witnessed and seen.
Well, Scott. That is not my experience and observations at all. In fact the opposite. And I use my own eyes, not the eyes of anyone else.
Hi Keith I know places will differ and not all places will be the same. I believe there’s a lot of good on both sides but also a lot of bad on both sides and if both sides could get along it would be a better outcome.
“Well if this is the case why are all rspb reserves and other moorland projects of rewilding failing”
They are not.
“most of these grouse moorland estates seem to be booming with harriers”
They are not.
The above shows that the use of gas guns was considered as a deterrent, not a conservation measure, 13 years ago. This is contrary to your assertion…
“Honestly I can (sic) believe how many people here think it’s to scare harriers these will help them”
So, it is, indeed the case. It, does not, however, contain any reference to RSPB reserves or re-wilding, as that isn’t the subject matter of this thread.
But if you wish to provide links to the published, peer-reviewed evidence which supports your personal observations of…
“all rspb reserves and other moorland projects of rewilding failing”…
and that…
“most of these grouse moorland estates seem to be booming with harriers and other birds of prey”
I’m sure that the regular visitors to these pages would be very interested.
Think you meant golden plover. But well said.
The same reason why your not illegal on public grounds, just the same way you an like minded people like yourself also scare the hen carrier an other birds hares away when your out on the moor an other grounds trying to save the planet, yous do more damage than good, so when you think about! When people like yourself thats against shooting on any grounds , your really doing us a favour in a way, by being present at the time before an after a shooting session yous are trying to keep wild safe, but really yous are scaring them away , as we all now wild birds an other wild life don’t like the presence off people,
Thank you for your comments.
There are differences with me being on the moor and possibly scaring a bird, the bird will still be alive, unlike the wealthy few who have not evolved into human beings yet, in their mind it is OK to kill as many birds as they can to satisfy their blood lust in the name of country sport.
You are correct in stating birds do not like the presence of people especially the grouse.
Hi John,
These are on privately-owned grouse moors.
what about the mannequins on moors that are not privately owned, surely it’s against the law to disturb breeding birds of prey on privately owned moors or do they have special treatment from the authorities?
I think we’re at cross-purposes, Andrew! Yes, it is illegal to disturb Sch 1 breeding birds (without a disturbance licence), whether on public or private land.
The difficulty, as I’ve written previously, is demonstrating presence of a nest and intent to disturb it, so it would need to be assessed on a case by case basis, I think, taking into consideration the breeding status of the birds, presence of a nest, timing and positioning of the mannequin.
There are further caveats relating to the protected status of the land in question (e.g. SSSI) and whether permission is required from the statutory authority (in this case Natural England) to install a mannequin. It’s not a straightforward situation at all.
Do these actually work; or do the raptors (eventually) realise that they are inanimate?
They should be seen for what they are: an attempt to disrupt the breeding of a number of protected species and deemed illegal. xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx. In which case the law needs strengthening.
Unfortunately, with the levels of corruption in our governments, both central and devolved, that is as unlikely to happen as it is for the law on hunting with hounds where the transgressions are absolutely clear and obvious but either ignored by the police, messed up by the CPS or let off with a slap on the wrist by judges and magistrates worried about upsetting their mates.
Exactly right
Why are the authorities letting this kind of disturbance to all wildlife happen ?I do not think this would be allowed in any other country.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
You’ve not been to Malta where you can buy a jar of pickled Robin’s to eat .they will shoot anything that moves. The only thing that needs shooting is woodpigeons as they are out of control.
Go to Spain and many other parts of Europe shoot anything and everything
Sadly, illegal killing of birds is not confined to the UK. See the web-site of CABS (Committee Against Bird Slaughter), for example, who do a lot of work in countries around the Mediterranean but also investigate and report on incidents in Germany and other northern European countries. That said, the heavy and targeted persecution of hen harriers on moorland and its serious impact on the breeding population is a particular problem in the UK.
There is one South of the Summit of Water Crag (north of Gunnerside). Unfortunately I didn’t take a picture. Saw last weekend.
I’m sure with time unless stopped by NE/DEFRA we will see these deployed on many moors. Many of which somebody will already know are intolerant of Hen Harriers and a number of other protected predators. In time we might even be able to map them, gas guns, harrier nests that have failed in dodgy circumstances and places where tagged harriers have gone” missing.” I wonder how much those four things might coincide on a map in time? What it is showing is which estates are harrier intolerant, this is why we should know which estates are doing it.
Going forward another interesting overlay to put on your proposed mapping might be estates that are “partners” for the brood meddling, or sightings of mannequins & gas guns in known nesting areas adjacent to the above.
Just seen it this morning, I’ll be back
Life of a raptor is as valuable to the bird as ours are to us. Just wish we could teach birds to fire guns!
Its ironoic that the people walking all over the moors taking photos of mannequins complaining of the static items disturbing birds of prey, when they are causing greater disturbance themself. wildlife will quickly get used to a static item, thats why people use hides or camouflage to get close to birds of prey to photograph them, otherwise they have to sit still for days for the birds to get close enough to take photos . Any moving objects will be seen from miles away dosent matter how well camouflaged they are, causing a greater disturbance. The average human can see a human sized figure moving at approximately half a mile away while a bird of prey can see 8+ times further than us. A stationary object dosn’t draw the eyes attention for more than a few seconds unlike something moving.
…and the mannequins are simply there to show off a bona fide range of quality second-hand country clothing to potential customers. A full range of sizes is available at your nearest “Local Shop, for Local People” outlet. Along with a new stock of “Harriers-Eye” optics, as unwisely depended upon by all the raptors recovered dead having been shot by shotgun, including the SEO reported on yesterday.
“wildlife will quickly get used to a static item”
So, why are they being used? Show us your ‘knowledge’.
Scarecrows are one of the few tools you are allowed to use, they are limited but something is better than nothing. you watch corvids when gas guns are being used scares them for a short time then they basicly ignore them after a week, scarecrows to be effective need to be moved every couple of days.
Terry, why all the patronising waffle about the general purpose of scarecrows & gas guns in their usual settings? What next, a story from Worzel Gummidge? Please focus in on their use in the locations and in the context at hand.
its not patronising waffle its in responce to Kieth commenting on my earlier comment. What would you prefer, someone using a scarecrow to deter or somone shooting, i know which i would prefer. the point still stands people walking all over the moors will create more disturbance than a localised static mannequin. until someone talks to the person who placed the mannequin there to find out why they put it there people are only guessing of its placement. if a mannequin protects already nesting birds by detering a larger bird or corvids from nesting or feeding nearby then so the better for smaller bird. if a bird of prey hasnt started building its nest you cant be disturbing it. For me there is to much emphasis placed on restocking predetors and little on building up the prey to sustain the predetors.
Are you saying there is too much emphasis given to “restocking” Hen Harriers? What kind of numbers do you feel there ought to be in England? Because unless you regard the current pitiful number to be excessive, there is no justification for the use of mannequins/ scarecrows & gas guns in their habitat (please take it as a given that I personally don’t fall for the corvid / gull scaring line).
Hi just because you don’t fall for it (your words) doesn’t mean that’s not the reason the mannequins are there. Protection for all birds at nesting not just the few. I’ve seen to many nests predated by corvids.
Predators survive without raiding nests for the rest of the year so if we can help protect all birds at nesting time then maybe we can reverse the rapid decline of our bird population.
Indulge me then, please Terry. Or we will waste our time arguing down a rabbit hole. Let’s forget gulls and crows for the moment. Let us just say (purely hypothetically, for argument s sake) that a grouse moor Estate came forward and said openly and honestly “We place mannequins and gas guns on our grouse moor, this is to deter Hen Harriers and/or Peregrine’s and/or Short Eared Owls from nesting and raising young on our grouse moor. Because we do not want them.”
Would you support or condemn their position, and why?
There’s the problem there giving some birds god status and sod the rest.
And another “rural authority” reveals their poorly-concealed, resentful agenda for all to see.
Says the townie who thinks only predators count. If you don’t support their food chains how will they survive, corvids will eat anything so they will be alright
Well Terry, now that you are sailing under your true colours -and we see that your talk about gulls and corvids was just smoke & mirrors, you now have your chance to make an honest case FOR the illegal persecution of (following from my previous hypothetical scenario) Hen Harriers, Peregrine’s and Short Eared Owls. You may fire when ready…
And now the old “townie” taunt! It doesn’t take much to get you lot to wheel that one out, does it?
You have no idea where I live, or what I think “counts” or not.
Now have a bash at answering the question asked of you by spaghnum morose, instead of trotting out ridiculous tripe such as your “god status” claim.
Isn’t that exactly what grouse moor managers do? Maximum numbers of grouse and sod anything that gets in the way of that goal.
Don’t deny that
I think you’ll find the word is PREDATORS. Your reference to “restocking” only reveals your lamentable ignorance.
“scarecrows to be effective need to be moved every couple of days.”
Scarecrows deter Hen Harriers from nesting.
The main problem that the RSPB and other wildlife groups have is that a degree is more important to get a job with them, rather than getting people involved who know how the industry works
Yes, in many cases a degree in ecology or environmental conservation. Something that most people in the “industry” will never have.
It’s called an education.
I apologize to spaghnum moreose an retract my apologies to coop,You were the one who called me a rural authoritarian,r ead your own posts like what i just did
This really is getting more religious (!!!!) by the moment!
It seems that Mr Gaston is having a bit of trouble understanding his own language. So let’s make things clear to him with a couple of dictionary definitions, and nip this stupidity in the bud.
First (in the correct context)…
AUTHORITY:
a person with extensive or specialized knowledge about a subject; an expert.
And secondly…
AUTHORITARIAN:
favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
or
showing a lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others; dictatorial.
The comment to which Mr Gaston alludes includes just one of the above. Which one do we think it is, boys and girls?
When he’s made his mind up as to which of us he’s apologising (and why), Mr Gaston should also make note that no-one here has suggested that conservationists, or any other body should “concentrate on one group of birds onl,y (sic)” (though the DGS sector, despite it’s pretentions, does exactly that), and that no species has been afforded “god status and sod the rest” apart from Red Grouse (until, that is, they’re blown to bits for the amusement of those with nothing better to do with their limited time on this planet).
And there Coop goes again can’t own up to his own mistakes and apologize for his early post which calls me a rural authoritarian, before my townie reply ,instead is more content on going off on one and being aggressive than having a sensible conversation. In coops eyes if you have a different view on things you’ll always be wrong.
Oh dear!
Despite the fact that the evidence disproving his allegation is here for all to see, and that he has been provided with an explanation of his error (by way of dictionary definitions), which the average six-year-old could understand, Mr Gaston (or shouldn’t that be Gaslight?) persists with his, frankly disturbing, denial of plain fact.
Lost and plot spring instantly to mind. đŸ˜•
Terry, Coop did not call you a rural authoritarian. He wrote “rural authority” (including the quotation marks) which is totally different, but is exactly how you are portraying yourself.
hi predictive text dosent always put up what you type, no my eyes aren’t the best at reading phone screens but the authoritarian / authority isnt the part that counted it is the rural part that counts, your either in the countryside, rural or in a town , townie. i certainly no authority never claimed to be. im only stating the things ive observed over the many decades living and working in the countryside.
Terry Gaston says:
June 26, 2023 at 1:56 pm
“And there Coop goes again can’t own up to his own mistakes and apologize for his early post which calls me a rural authoritarian”
So, now that his repeated…ahem…”inexactitude” has been demonstrated to him (in BLOCK CAPITALS), and that a third party has felt obliged to correct him, Mr Gaston would have us believe that his bizarre behaviour is the result of a combination of predictive text and poor eyesight. Presumably, his phone/eyesight were also responsible for the complete fabrication that I’ve…
“insinuates(ed) country bumpkin with the Wurzel reference”.
In addition, he claims that the word which prompted his apparent annoyance and related bellyaching isn’t actually important after all, and that the adjective “rural” is the true offence!
Perhaps his comments should include the prefix…”yeah, but no but”!
I must, however, agree with one of his statements…
He certainly isn’t an authority!
I have one comment for you, why do you have to stand on a soap box and preach instead of addressing me personally like every other person on this site?.
Lackaday!
It appears that Mr Gaston has found something else to be offended by.
Surely…
“I have one comment for you”
should read…
“I have one question for you.”
We can’t all be perfect can we.
Perfection is, of course unattainable.
Honesty (no matter what little value some attach to it) would be an admirable objective to strive for.
And what is your evidence of this? Quote some verifiable examples… I bet you cannot.
Religious tripe says the person with one view who has a gripe about being called a townie when he calls another a rural authoritarian or insinuates country bumpkin with the Wurzel reference. He who was insulting in the first place. I support birds of prey never said I didn’t but to say placing a mannequin on a moor before a bird of prey starts building a nest as illegal nest disturbance is completely wrong, you cant disturb a nest if it isn’t built in the eyes of the law.. to say with smoke and mirrors over corvids and gulls, no, corvids and not so much gulls do alot of damage down here so need controlling. Seen many a time crow’s attacking birds of prey around nesting time, also when birds of prey get into crow and raven territories, the barn owl s were pushed out of the chalk cliffs behind my place (disused quary) they now live in a large bird box close to house where my mate successfully had 5 kestrels bread in another box overlooking the quary last year, there are 2 breading red kites that I know of locally scouring the hill side, plus lots of buzzards. I love watching the kestrels hunting in the pit and buzzard’s riding the thermals. In the 80s there wasn’t any red kites or buzzards where I live, the first buzzard I saw was in somerset hovering over the wood lined valley in hockworthy. In the mid to late 80s a pair of red kites were released close by but sadly didn’t last long, then they released more in the 90s and that’s why we have red kites around me now. A couple of people I know photograph bird’s of prey and on more than once I’ve supplied them rabbit’s so they can sit in a hide and take close up pictures. Illegal persecution of birds of prey is completely wrong and the perpetrators should be taken to account, but the difficulty is proving who’s mucky hands are on the crime. It’s not just rouge keepers but there are other undesirables out and about from outside the region I know because I’ve had run ins with them and damage to my property for my bother. Police don’t want to know unless you can supply them with them with the ins and outs of a magpies a**hole. Local gamekeeper got coshed over the head by poachers he had confronted, he had to go to hospital, stitches in his head, they arested the poachers 2 1/2hrs later because of witnesses statements but had to let them go because the keeper couldn’t ID the person who had hit him because he was struck from behind. So unless you are able to get DNA or video/ photo evidence to link a person or persons to a persecution the CPS won’t prosecute. If someone is using a gas cannon to disturb certain bird’s then surely they must have got a licence from NE or DEFRA, shouldn’t have thought it to hard to check with them, (maybe wrong) and if not they are breaking the law and relevant authorities should be called as police have powers to enter said ground if a crime is being committed then they confiscate said cannon or turn it off so whoever put it there comes to find out why it’s not working an arrest them. not Joe public as they are committing an offence if they tamper with the equipment,2 wrongs don’t make a right.
I can only assume that Mr Gaston is referring to my comments, but has somehow failed to submit his reply in the correct place. Has he just got back from the pub? If not, I suggest that he visits his optician forthwith. His statement…
“Religious tripe says the person with one view who has a gripe about being called a townie when he calls another a rural authoritarian or insinuates country bumpkin with the Wurzel reference.”
is completely untrue. As is patently obvious to any literate individuals here,
I’ve made no mention of religion.
I’ve not called anyone an “authoritarian”.
And, not once have I referred to (or made any implication toward) a “country bumpkin” or “Wurzel”.
Neither have I expressed an opinion one way or the other on the fact that he called me a “townie”; other than the fact that he, of course, has no way of knowing where I live, and that such a stupid term has been the resort of self-styled (here it comes) “rural authorities” whenever their activities or opinions are questioned, and they prove incapable of constructing rational arguments.
As for the rest of his muddled rant (in which he furiously back-pedals from his obviously resentful “god status” notion)? Well, it doesn’t really warrant further consideration, apart from reference to the laudable inclusivity of some shoot owners who employ “rouge keepers”! Criminals or not, these blokes deserve the same job opportunities as the rest of us!
I do apologise to coop the response was for spagham moreose. I’ve not backpeddled on anything, and haven’t ranted as you call it and if you want to look at things through tunnel vision then foolish you. you just can’t concentrate on one group of birds onl,y it’s a far bigger picture than that and to go down that route is foolish And for others say something it illegal and a crime when it doesn’t meet the legal parameters doesn’t do anyone any good .
“…rather than getting people involved who know how the industry works”
You mean by nods and winks and turning a blind eye while the keeper goes and stamps on a clutch of hen harrier eggs or shoots a short-eared owl or two?
Go round get some decent jackets off these manikins for hunting
Having read the comments regarding these scarecrows. It seems their appearance has only happened in the last few weeks.
Is this significant, as are we now at time when many birds will already have nested and many young may have already fledged?
As such what is the purpose of placing the scarecrows high on the moor so late into the nesting season?
Having recently talked to some keepers I understand there has been problems this year with certain birds such as gulls which are not on the GL list but which are detrimental to ground nesting birds.
I also haven’t seen scarecrows in previous years, so are estates simply trying to find new legitimate ways of reducing predation? What has generated this idea?
I am ignorant on these matters.
But can we be sure these scarecrows are being placed out to solely with the purpose to disrupt Hen Harriers?
Has there been any proper scientific studies to look at the impact of the effect these scarecrows have on moorland birds?
It may be something that needs much more research?
Maybe it’s something NE, the RSPB, BTO and GWCT need to undertake?
(If research has already been undertaken – please can someone share it?)
Perhaps in the meantime a way forward would be for estates to consult with NE fieldworkers or raptor study groups to ensure the siting of these scarecrows doesn’t interfere with Hen Harrier conservation.
It is interesting that I have seen scarecrows on estates which are known for their conservation work, and the timing might suggest the estates aren’t looking to prevent birds finding suitable nesting sites?
But as stated previously I have no real knowledge on this matter.
Hi John, this stuff needs to included in (proposed) program of regulation and licensing. Where a permit was applied for and obtained for appropriate use of scarecrows / mannequins / gas guns on grouse moors, it would give cynical buggers like me the reassurance “oh, well it must have been looked into”. This is yet more to add to the compelling case that the “good guy” Estates ought to be making FOR regulation themselves, but suspiciously they are not. You mention it is gulls they are getting the finger pointed at them this year? Last year it was badgers, “they come up’t valley for afterbirths (lambing) then go on fell for the grouse chicks” ,etc, etc. Year before that it was Red Kites stressing grouse hens on the nests. Next year it may be cuckoos that look like a bit like hawks (!) frightening them and holding numbers back. Only partly joking…I’ve heard so much down the years, first and second hand that in my mind’s eye I always see a big neon sign above a keepers head flashing “Caveat Emptor” whenever they talk in that vein. There is always something that is inhibiting the moors potential that gives keepers sleepless nights, I wonder that they don’t all develop stomach ulcers with worry!
Terry, you did present some fairly bold views. One example – in response to my hypothetical scenario about Harriers, Peregrines, Short Eared Owls (a few replies above) you suggested they had “god status” and then failed to follow up and clarify with your views on their persecution. You have wasted everyone’s time giving the impression you had some great wisdom to impart on this matter, could reveal some gem of insight or research that we had all overlooked, and you have only repeated one or two generalisations about the relative merits of control of corvids and gulls, and a tale of some local difficulties (although I do sympathise with anyone in the battle against yobs, thugs, thieves, etc in our society, as they are certainly not rare!) but totally irrelevant to continuing raptor persecution in the north of England (focus of this blog article). I suspect some local stuff has maybe upset you and caused a knee jerk reaction against presumed enemies (be they left of centre types, tree-huggers, bird-lovers, or generic “anti’s”) you have misidentified. All I want is for the law to be enforced, or for those who wish to change the law to make their case honestly, and not to use their political influence and the semi-skilled skulduggery of their lackeys to break the law.
I’m happy to meet on another thread, but until then I personally have no more time to give to you.
I have not missidentified the enemies, I’m not allowed to I.d the group but it isn’t in the list you supplied.