Dim-witted dinosaur Jim Shannon MP (DUP, Strangford, NI) is back making a fool of himself again.
Just a few weeks after being told that the UK Government “is not considering any further controls on the number of raptors” (see here), here’s what the Countryside Alliance member said in the Westminster Parliament yesterday:
From Hansard (2 Nov 2017)
“The number of birds of prey across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has risen astronomically to the detriment of songbirds. The Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs does occasionally grant licences to cull birds of prey, but many country people and landowners who want to avail themselves of such licences in order to achieve a balance in the countryside find the process to be off-putting. Indeed, sometimes they cannot get a licence. There are too many birds of prey and too few songbirds and mammals, so will the Leader of the House grant a debate on that or call for a statement from DEFRA?”
Here’s the response from Andrea Leadsom MP:
“The hon. Gentleman shares with me a love of nature and wildlife, but we have seen a reduction in this country’s wildlife over many years. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs [Michael Gove MP] has said, it is vital that we take steps as we leave the EU to improve our biodiversity and the prevalence of songbirds and mammals. He is taking steps to ensure that that happens, and there will be further opportunities as we leave the EU“.
There was a good feature about this on Northern Ireland’s BBC Newsline this evening, with a response from Dr Marc Ruddock of the Northern Ireland Raptor Study Group, who managed not to laugh and instead calmly explained that the scientific evidence does not support Jim Shannon’s ludicrous claims. You can watch it on iPlayer here (starts 12:05) but it’s only available for 24 hrs.
Apparently Jim Shannon wasn’t available for interview. Too busy practising his lines for The Simpsons, perhaps.
Raptor Persecution UK 
well done guys, its heartening to read some positive news re the last few blogs, do not have the time at the moment to comment anywhere near as much as I would like however I would still like to pass on my appreciation for the enthusiasm and professionalism you show in taking on a fight that only a few years ago seemed totally one sided. cracks are appearing (no not just Jim Shannon, “have you ever considered the environmental impact on songbirds of releasing 40 million non native large gamebirds” ) but BASC must surely now be taking note that the majority of its membership takes no part in driven grouse shooting and takes no pleasure in being associated with the organised criminal gangs who flout the law in our uplands. brilliant piece by Guy Shorrocks on the news the other day, please keep placing secret cameras on nests, even if the courts do not use them as admissible we can still show the world what these low life’s are up too. all the best guys
Guy Shorrocks was great eh? Totally owned his airtime! Our hen harriers will continue to than him.
What a complete and utter fecking idiot.
It’s quite worrying how a complete buffoon can end up an MP . But we all know what happens to Dinosaurs !!
Agreed..there was a conservative MSP who when giving evidence to the Scottish parliament on deer numbers in the Highlands and whether or not more should be culled spoke against it on the grounds that he did not want to see ‘tundra’ everywhere. He of course in trying to be clever, obviously something he shouldn’t do, confused tundra with taiga. What an arse. He also said that the ludicrous numbers of deer we have isn’t an increased danger on the roads you just have to drive carefully. Yes it is scary and bloody depressing who gets voted in.
Must admit I have doubts about this near-universal approval of deer culling among fellow conservationists. I honestly can’t decide on whether there are “too many deer,” perhaps subconsciously because I associate that observation with the Countryside Alliance type view that there are too many raptors, foxes, badgers, crows, etc. I understand the concern that Red Deer suppress the regeneration of Caledonian forest, but to what extent are these large numbers encouraged by supplementary winter feeding? We are emotionally blackmailed by being told that it (combined with shooting) is done for the welfare of deer which would suffer if we didn’t feed them, but although this might increase for a while, wouldn’t the cessation of winter feeding and “deer management” lead to a reduced population without yet more culls? More deer dying naturally on the hills would presumably provide more food for Golden Eagles, Ravens and other scavengers. If I’m wrong perhaps someone could explain why.
Heehee – brilliant RPUK @ practising for the Simpsons.
The sad thing is this buffoon’s voice is getting heard. And what’s with all the bands around his wrists? Are these the game fairs he’s attended whilst spouting his bollocks? xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
Sorry RPUK, and thanks for censoring. The last hit was irrelevant (funny though :))!
The bands will be to remind him of the order in which the days of the week fall.
I wouldn’t bank on him not getting some dispensation to have raptors in NI culled, though. The DUP have the Tories over a barrel for support on more than a few parliamentary matters. It all depends how much pull he has in his own party, and how badly he wants this, but he could make it happen. If it comes down to quietly cooking up some pseudoscience to let NI cull a few of its birds or Theresa May getting (further) embarrassed, then we know which way the Tories would jump. Especially since they could use it as precedent on the Mainland UK at a later date. I’m not saying it is likely, but I’m not saying we should feel overly secure about it not happening either.
It’s very unlikely this would ever happen – there’s very little economical argument for legally culling raptors (such as protecting pheasants) in Northern Ireland. Ecological arguments such as that given by Shannon would be shot down in an instant by the conservation community, and add to that that a colleague of his, Jim Wells of the DUP, is a keen raptor man and is part of the NIRSG. I can’t see Northern Ireland Environment Agency ever granting licences for culling any raptors in NI.
I’ve given up saying that things which are merely unlikely are impossible. We live in a world of Brexit and President Trump, those heady days of innocence are long gone.
Its unlikely, I accept, but if he wants it enough and has sufficient pull in his party (which wouldn’t need to be a lot, because it wouldn’t take much for a DUP party maverick to screw the DUP’s cosy little earner up) then he could get it. All it takes is for it to seem less risky to cook up a pseudoscience basis for a “limited” cull of raptors than to risk the DUP/Tory alliance coming unstuck in HoC. They don’t even want those votes to be a close thing, they need them to be all as convincing as possible (and even on the best of days that isn’t terribly convincing). Its unlikely, but if he wants it enough then it is possible.
Too many ‘chavs’ is more like it, if an idiot like Trump can be a US predident it is no supprise that the UK government has it’s own share of disadvantaged people in the IQ context.
The man is a fool and ignoramus but the fact that this gets any air time at all means there are those out there who are equally ecologically and intellectually challenged and who will take heart from this idiots utterances because it justifies and enforces their beliefs. Even though we think the man is a laughing stock there is the real risk that some concessions will be granted in NI to buy the DUP vote in parliament, we may wish Hell to freeze over first but you never know.
I think he ought to be challenged – which songbirds are being killed by birds of prey, Jim? Red Kites are scavengers, Peregrines keep the local feral pigeon numbers down. Buzzards mainly prey on rabbits, rats and earthworms.
Is it Sparrowhawks and Merlins that are doing all the damage or habitat destruction?
Or domestic cats?
There are 2 1/2 million feral cats in the UK. These are feeding all the time on wild prey. Our two domestic moggies have only caught 6 birds in all of their nine years and they were semi-feral farm cats. I am campaigning for all cats to be chipped as this will allow ferals to be more easily identified and neutered. We need to be clear that science, not emotion, should dictate policy.
It’s not birds of prey or domestic cats that are “killing all the songbirds.” I think we can safely assume that Mr Shannon has not a shred of evidence to prove anything about songbird numbers, one way or another. Let’s be honest, he’s either basing his statement on hearsay, or making it up.
On the bright side the dim wit wants more mammals…
But presumably not mountain hares!
I was doing a static falconry display in Warwickshire recently when approached by a gentleman who’s first brusque words to me were “We’re being overrun by red kites”
“what problem do they cause” I replied.
“They eat all the food we put out for feral cats” he said.
“Why are you putting food out for feral cats?” I said in disbelief.
“I suppose you’ve got a point” he accepted
I don’t think it was Jim Shannon as he probably wouldn’t have seen the sense in the argument.
You don’t even need to be a scientist to see through that one. Birds of prey and songbirds etc etc have survived together for thousands of years. The birds of prey haven’t changed what they do. The change is all driven by humans. The actual detail of what is to blame might be harder to pinpoint but we know what is driving it.
Mammals, songbirds . . . . too few. I wonder what his constituents would say if he said a true culprit for the numbers of these. Cats.
Too many poor things like Jim Shannon making decisions they are not qualified to make.
What an ignorant old man , song birds are decreasing so lets kill more birds to” balance nature”.Never mind evidence or science,How did nature ever manage without us ? Such a pity that because of Tory corruption he has been given a greater platform than he might have had. I would hope some of his constituents would have a word.
I don’t agree with him – does that make me a clever old man? Gee thanks………….
No ,just normal (ish)
At the very least it makes you less stupid than he is!
I have written to him to ask what evidence he has for his claims. Waiting for a reply. Ashamed to have my MP shown up for such a buffoon.
i am less concerned about the comments made by Jim Shannon as the fawning and sycophantic response from the Minister. I shall write to her to point out the clear evidence that in any relatively natural system, I.e. one where a particular species is not maintained at a high level by human intervention. e.g. grouse moors and pheasant shooting estates, it has been clearly established that the number of predators is dictated by the availability of prey, not visa-versa. I shall go through my BTO Bird Study books to find a reference.
Here isa my Letter to the Minister raising this issue:
Dear Ms Leadstrom,
I refer to the following exchange of views in the House.
From Hansard (2 Nov 2017)
“The number of birds of prey across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has risen astronomically to the detriment of songbirds. The Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs does occasionally grant licences to cull birds of prey, but many country people and landowners who want to avail themselves of such licences in order to achieve a balance in the countryside find the process to be off-putting. Indeed, sometimes they cannot get a licence. There are too many birds of prey and too few songbirds and mammals, so will the Leader of the House grant a debate on that or call for a statement from DEFRA?”
Your response was:
“The hon. Gentleman shares with me a love of nature and wildlife, but we have seen a reduction in this country’s wildlife over many years. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs [Michael Gove MP] has said, it is vital that we take steps as we leave the EU to improve our biodiversity and the prevalence of songbirds and mammals. He is taking steps to ensure that that happens, and there will be further opportunities as we leave the EU“.
May I point out:
There is no link between the numbers of birds of prey and the number of songbirds. The RSPB position is clear and can be found at https://ww2.rspb.org.uk/our-work/our-positions-and-casework/our-positions/species/birds-of-prey-in-the-uk/birds-of-prey-and-songbirds/ . They quote the views of the Government’s Raptor Working Group, which included leading experts from the GWCT, British Association for Shooting and Conservation, the Royal Pigeon Racing Association, the Scottish Raptor Study Groups and the RSPB. In 2000 they said that:
“There is no scientific evidence that sparrowhawks or other birds of prey have had population effects on British songbirds. In our view, there is overwhelming evidence that changes in agricultural practice over recent decades have caused the substantial changes we have seen in farmland bird populations.”
The fact that numbers of some bird of prey are increasing has much to do with ending the use of dangerous herbicides, such as DDT, which threatened to wipe out our owls and birds of prey. Not all birds of prey are increasing. The Hen Harrier as a breeding species in England is critically endangered, and there is much speculation about the death of these birds on or around shooting estates. Any support for the view of shooting interests, such as those of the Countryside Alliance, must be treated with suspicion.
We need a cull of dim wits like him!!
Obvious he as never tried to find all these Birds of Prey for himself or would not have made such an idiotic comment, he to stick to things he knows about and then he would not keep making such stupid comments.
I wonder what he feels about introducing measures to address modern farming techniques in an attempt to protect song bird populations.
Why doesn’t it surprise me that a DUP MP chooses to ignore conclusive scientific research.
Good job it’s only raptors and nothing important!
As so often happens government rules are only half thought through on these types of things. Farmers have to leave a bit more of a border around fields these days but they can cut it once a year and most shave it down to the ground when to be effective it needs to be left at approx 4 ” to maintain the habitat and grass thatch that supports so much of the wildlife.
So, yes, introduce measures but make sure they are up to standard – but don’t hold your breath.