RSPB Scotland has just published a podcast discussing whether the Wildlife Management & Muirburn Bill will finally bring an end to the illegal killing of birds of prey on Scottish grouse moors.
Some of it was recorded at REVIVE’s national conference in Perth last month, and some of it immediately prior, and after, yesterday’s Stage 1 debate of the Bill. It includes contributions from RSPB Scotland (Duncan Orr-Ewing and Ian Thomson), the REVIVE coalition for grouse moor reform (Robbie Marsland), Biodiversity Minister Lorna Slater, Chris Packham and me, with Stephen Magee from the RSPB hosting the discussions.
It’s available to listen, for free, HERE.
Raptor Persecution UK 
Thanks
Raptors need controlling in some areas they destroy many rare birds balance in everything.
Okay fine, then let those people (landowners, agents, etc) that feel this is the state of affairs make an open and honest and compelling case for such action, and get an official licence to do it. Or are you saying that raptors “need controlling” illegally? i.e. “on the quiet” as has been continuing on an industrial scale for the last 70 years. So that the authorities and the general public don’t get to hear about it and have their say?
Perhaps Mr Clark would care to explain (with a link to published, peer-reviewed evidence, of course) the details of his claim?
Which”areas”?
Which raptor species?
Which “rare birds” do they “destroy”?
Individuals, or populations?
What is “balance in everything”?
Perhaps not.
Does John C think raptors seek out rare birds rather than the more common species, small mammals, carrion, and any other normal prey?
I very much hope this bill will be the end to the killing of all birds of prey in Scotland 🏴 Also this will be my New Year’s Resolution. And a short prayer at mass on Christmas Eve🙏
Yes but you will need to end the burning of heather on grouse moors and the mass trapping of mammals on managed moors first – the former by hard lobbying on stopping global warming [where this system is at its most vulnerable/unacceptable] the latter on showing the public what really goes on here…surely at a time of COP summit the UK should be condemning this damaging practice?
I agree. The intensity of the “stoat trapping effort” needs to be scrutinised very closely. The over-intensification of trapping for stoats this last 25 – 30 years has (in my opinion only, it needs proper research) made weasels more or less extinct in the grouse moor areas I am familiar with. And here’s another biggie to think about – medicated grit!
Has increased run-off of rainfall been measured on areas of heather burning?
It will certainly reduce the illegal killings, initially, but they will find another way to deal with them, it would not surprise me if they started killing away from their land to throw suspicion on someone else, sadly the whole shooting industry has become so big, and lucrative for the managers and owners, they will not allow birds of prey to restrict their money income by as much as one bird, and that is going to be the biggest problem, greed goes hand in hand with money, and with sack loads of money they will pay ro remove any threat.
The industry has become a monstrous machine for making money hand over fist, and while there are people willing to kill birds in the guise of sport, there will be a need for someone else to profit from this pastime.
Personally I don’t agree with any kind of killing for sport, or fun, the shooting of birds I’d no different to chasing foxes with a pack of dogs, or pretending to chase a scent, and accidentally chasing across fox territory, and claiming accidental fox deaths.
An absolutely barbaric way of passing time, which serves no purpose but to make money for wealthy land owners.
I am so glad this bill has been passed stage one, and with such a vast majority, hopefully it will get through stage two, and finally get put into action.
The next step will to have trackers installed on all weapons, which can not be removed, and any attempt to use a gun without a tracker working, or fitted should carry a minimum sentence of 5 years, and removal of license.
If these people wish to continue to shoot birds for fun, then it should be governed, and monitored.
With trackers fitted to all guns you would be able to pin point exactly who had a gun in the area a bird of prey was illegally killed, this and only this would stop illegal killings.
As a photographer I use a camera to shoot birds, for fun, but leave no trace, and no damage, I do not disturb wildlife, and only leave with a picture, using my drone in some places, I have to have it licenced, and registered, it leaves a trace on the Internet of my flight plans, paths, heights, flight duration and take of and landing position, and can be tracked by my flyer id, and all flights are stored on my controller.
It is this level of accountability that ensures that I do not break the law, and can prove I have flown respectfully, and within the legal limits, this system could be easily implemented into guns, offering a great level of security to all public knowing all guns are tracked.
I am sure this level of security would scare the gun carrying population, especially the shooting industry, all of their actions would be visible, and when a bird of prey which coincidentally are often tracked, this would pin point a gun user to the same spot the bird dissappears, or vanishes, there would be a fairly good chance to catch the criminals at last, and no matter how much money is thrown at making it go away, or whoever they had on the inside would not be able to sweep it under the carpet any more, and this would also stop mps from getting involved too.
Yes this measure could be seen as big brother, but as they have shown they are completely incapable of owning their actions, and have been getting away with murder for far too long, this is the only reason anyone would want to resist a bill of this type, and if they had nothing to hide they would welcome this safety net, which could actually save someone from being charged for a crime they didn’t commit, equally could find the culprit too.
I would love to see a hen harrier In the wild, but unfortunately their numbers are being kept low by illegal killings, and habitat destruction from poor land management, and the burning of ground cover in the interests of game birds, with all the native birds being driven away by non native wildlife, and human interference, the prey has been removed, so these amazing birds are being driven to Extinction, just like the red kite was in England, and the eagles, and many more birds and animals, take away their food and habitat, there is nothing left, so it’s move on or die, in more ways than one, either from lack of food, or from bullets, and shot from 12 bore shotguns, time it ended for good, and the good of the birds and animals.
Many good points here. I think we’d all like to see shooting stopped properly. On the guns issue, there are, sadly, many more ways to kill raptors than shoot them.
There are some very good places to see hen harriers, particularly in Scotland. I can recommend Tarras Valley Nature Reserve in Langholm where i previously lived. Former grouse moor, now a reserve. You can watch them from the roadside. I’ve also seen them on Skye and other Western Isles. Apparently, on the Isle of Man there is no shooting and the island is home to about 36 pairs. I would love to see that. I hope you get your wish to see them.
No, is the short answer. Licensing of anything, has never deterred those wanting to break the law, from road users, to fishermen to dog owners. Andcit’s questionable how thorough any investigation can be, given the connections between senior law enforcers and land owners.
I disagree that licensing has never deterred anybody. Lots of motorists (like me) change their behaviour when they get points on their licence as they know they could lose it, although yes some scumbags carry on without a licence. Trawler skippers are deterred from landing more than their quota as one or two have been jailed, although yes some scumbags still take their chances. Dogs? There is no licence and the old one was totally meaningless. Pub landlords can lose their liquor licence and go out of business, although yes some will put it in someone else’s name to try get around it. The compliance / investigation and legal enforcement side is of course what matters on the ground, but you need that “rule book” in place first as a foundation to that. This is the first time democratic society has stood up and said to this industry “we don’t like a lot of the things you have been doing – it’s not right, we will make you change”. I think this is a milestone moment and truly a big advance in the front line.
I agree with JB’s sentiments and think that those with interests in the killing industry will find a loophole, or just ignore the laws. They have influence and money, which in this country means you can get away with murder, let alone killing animals and birds.
I don’t agree with JB or frances although I have qualms about the whole thing. We need as Sphagnum says a set of rules for the licensed to follow as a first and major step against those things that we don’t like, don’t want to continue and those that are already illegal. There will be some who despite not liking the new rules will follow them, probably more than currently follow the rules/law now for fear of losing their ability to shoot. Remember the burden of proof will be that of civil not criminal law. My concerns are that because many of the licensed will not be easily persuaded to be compliant the “policing” of this needs to be rigorous to ensure both compliance and those who transgress are caught, then the penalties need to be severe enough to force the recalcitrant to be compliant, the current slaps on the wrist are nowhere near adequate. To me it is a first and major step if this fails there is one last resort and despite what we all say I still think that wild harvest of naturally occurring game is far preferable to the abomination that is shooting released Pheasants etc. ( That I would ban without hesitation.)
I agree with you.
The policing of any new legislation and the level of evidence required to revoke a licence will be what makes or breaks this proposal.
Even with the lower burden of proof set to that of civil law, there will still have to be some evidence that an individual or an estate is engaged in raptor persecution, mere suspicion will not be enough.
I would suggest that included within the legislation must new powers for the police and other regulatory bodies, so that where raptor persecution is suspected these authorities can have much greater investigative intrusion than they are afforded at the moment. I would also suggest that new powers also need to include the ability to conduct directed covert surveillance on individuals and estates who are believed to be involved in raptor persecution.
My big concern is that the Scottish parliament will pass legislation which looks good on paper, but which is impossible or impracticable to enforce.
The vast majority of raptor persecution incidents occur out of sight and far away from the public gaze, and the reality is no one really knows the true extent of the crimes being committed as these crimes occur in a dark abyss, and never come to public knowledge.
Whether there will be a shift of attitudes within the game shooting industry is a topic very much open to debate. Will those who don’t engage in raptor persecution finally feel as though the only way to create a level playing field in which the industry can operate fairly is when the villains are put out of business, and the rogue estates lose their licences?
However this doesn’t address the issue that raptor persecution benefits the whole industry, both good and bad estates, and as such, as others have already pointed out, money is what drives this industry, and the money is influenced by the number of game birds an estate can produce. So even the “good” estates benefit when raptor populations are suppressed by criminal activity.
Will the shooting industry really engage with a robust licensing scheme which hopefully will see raptor populations increase and could potentially result in a possible loss of income from reduced artificially high game bird populations? I think this is very doubtful.
I agree with JB and Frances they have money and influences which means yes they can do what they like and they constantly do and do get away with murder of everything including cyclists.